If all amps sound the same then what you are hearing then is the weakest link in the audio chain and not the amps. If you know for a fact that this is not the case, then the weakest link is your ears, and that is not a bad thing.
These days, the real weakest link in sound reproduction technology is the room acoustics (unless you use headphone) and speaker performance. The rest is trivial.
As for the ears being the weakest link, it's actually the mind that's playing tricks on the listener (or should I say the one who imagines).
No , I didn't but we experimented with the cables. After second round I was not able to form a clear opinion. It was not very scientific and frankly it wasn't conclusive . My friend's wife came from work and asked " what are you playing with boys" we explained that we're comparing cables . She rolled her eyes. Let me listen , she said . We played one cable, than another and she said . First cable sounds this and that the other does that and this . She was spot on , the problem was she couldn't say which one was better and why.
Please don't try to tell me that if you listen to your own intimately familiar setup with music of your choice you cannot spot the difference in amplifier even if they match the level and put the amp. behind the curtain .
Hahahaha , Happy Listening 😀 I really feel like
That;s the right attitude. It allowed Japanese and other smart people from other countries to buy the best sounding and valuable gear from US and other pop culture countries for pennies by tons. All this Western Electric , Altec , Jbl andTannoy junk. In return they sent back amps which all sound the same crappy , no wonder nobody can pass that double blind test 😀
Must be air pressure or what ya had for breakfast? One's body is taller in the morning than during the day. Gravity? What about the weather on Mars?
Anyhow, I know what I like because an involuntaryhttps://www.google.co.nz/search?q=i...XW8gXwyoD4Bg&ved=0CBoQvwUoAA&biw=1360&bih=596 smile spreads across my face! Merry Xmas all.
Anyhow, I know what I like because an involuntaryhttps://www.google.co.nz/search?q=i...XW8gXwyoD4Bg&ved=0CBoQvwUoAA&biw=1360&bih=596 smile spreads across my face! Merry Xmas all.
Oh, I am selling speaker wire for $800 per meter. All atoms guaranteed 100% recycleable. MHAHAHA! Just don't eat them.
If your amplifier has some significant distortion, non-linear or in frequency response, such as, for example, some SET amplifiers have, then it is absolutlely believable that you could spot the difference. No claim to the contrary was ever made, I think. But double-blind listening tests seem to confirm that amplifiers without significant distortion cannot be distinguished.
Chris
I have a question,
If we take the line that all amps sound the same in blind testing then I am going to ask:
Because there either is an audible difference or there isn't?
Lets add a bone of contention..DIY audio amplifiers might sound different because they are flawed..ie we cannot make an amp better than a commercial supplier? (because any amplifier that sounds different is adding to the signal)
Regards
M. Gregg
If we take the line that all amps sound the same in blind testing then I am going to ask:
- There is no difference between a Krell top end amp and a pioneer A300x only price?
- You cannot tell one topology from another in either SS or tube design?
- The PSU in these amps makes no audible difference?
- The component types make no audible difference that includes output transformers?
- All the above are true as long as the same speakers are used?
- The damping factor is not audible?
- one more..if you can hear a difference there is something wrong with the amp?
Because there either is an audible difference or there isn't?
Lets add a bone of contention..DIY audio amplifiers might sound different because they are flawed..ie we cannot make an amp better than a commercial supplier? (because any amplifier that sounds different is adding to the signal)
Regards
M. Gregg
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that surmise applies when the frequency response of the amplifiers is adjusted to be identical
AND
the amplifiers never have to handle a signal that causes them to misbehave, eg. by voltage or current overload.
This has been stated by more than one professional Amplifier Designer.
Its a bit of a get out really isn't it..
The statement is massaged to fit the criteria.
The statement is "take any amplifiers at the same volume level in blind tests at the same volume and you cannot tell them apart."
Its either true or it isn't..
Now lets not assume its at cat listening levels..something like set the lowest power amp to a reasonable level without distortion and make all the others run at the same volume.
Regards
M. Gregg
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So here is the question..
Is it true? Or is it that the person can't link the sound they hear to an image of the amp in their mind ie they hear a difference but they are not sure which sound is linked to which amp?
Of course if the source is the same, then the only difference can be lack or gain of distortion added or taken from the signal.
Its a very interesting question..the same might be true for dacs or cd players..😀
So what is the point of Audio design..just buy a good midfi amp..
Regards
M. Gregg
Is it true? Or is it that the person can't link the sound they hear to an image of the amp in their mind ie they hear a difference but they are not sure which sound is linked to which amp?
Of course if the source is the same, then the only difference can be lack or gain of distortion added or taken from the signal.
Its a very interesting question..the same might be true for dacs or cd players..😀
So what is the point of Audio design..just buy a good midfi amp..
Regards
M. Gregg
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Years ago,
At some 70's HIFI conventions I genuinely thought SS amps were superior to valve equipment..I even listened to some valve equipment and the SS Naim stuff blew it away..
However the valve stuff today does not sound like the muffled equipment of years ago! so perhaps valve equipment sounds more like SS designs now than before..or the design criteria has bought the two closer together?
Perhaps it is true..which is why some audiophile people I know say years ago they would have spent thousands of pounds on equipment but not now. The lower end is up where the top end was in the 70's. Ie midfi is good enough? Or perhaps the difference is so small what's the point of going further?
I guess if you think about it the how good is the source of audio? Can you tell an Ipod from a CD player in a blind test if the Ipod is using good recordings or perhaps a source playing Flac.
Regards
M. Gregg
At some 70's HIFI conventions I genuinely thought SS amps were superior to valve equipment..I even listened to some valve equipment and the SS Naim stuff blew it away..
However the valve stuff today does not sound like the muffled equipment of years ago! so perhaps valve equipment sounds more like SS designs now than before..or the design criteria has bought the two closer together?
Perhaps it is true..which is why some audiophile people I know say years ago they would have spent thousands of pounds on equipment but not now. The lower end is up where the top end was in the 70's. Ie midfi is good enough? Or perhaps the difference is so small what's the point of going further?
I guess if you think about it the how good is the source of audio? Can you tell an Ipod from a CD player in a blind test if the Ipod is using good recordings or perhaps a source playing Flac.
Regards
M. Gregg
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Alright I'll respond.
Take a pair of identical amplifiers and and alter the frequency response on one, so that it
Many will be able to tell them apart. The difference in frequency response needs to be surprisingly small for even a few to not be able to tell them apart.
If this condition is not applied, then the statement cannot be true.
The frequency response condition is a necessary condition for the "test" to become valid.
Take a pair of identical amplifiers and and alter the frequency response on one, so that it
Many will be able to tell them apart. The difference in frequency response needs to be surprisingly small for even a few to not be able to tell them apart.
If this condition is not applied, then the statement cannot be true.
The frequency response condition is a necessary condition for the "test" to become valid.
🙂..
Do you think it is only frequency response?
What about current delivery and recovery time?
Which I will admit is effected by volume levels..
Its interesting..I will admit that I have been fooled by thinking a system sounded like a really bad SS design and then not said anything because the owner then said see look ita a Leak stereo 20 isn't it great 😀
My first thought was let me at it, quick give me a soldering iron.. Kinel Oh yes its sounds good doesn't it..😀
Regards
M. Gregg
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I showed the two conditions that are applied by a few professional amplifier designers.
I expanded on the frequency response requirement since you seemed to have doubts about whether any conditions should be tacked on to the comparison "test".
Overloading of an amplifier is critical to what comes out during and shortly after the overload condition. During overload, the necessary condition for a competent amplifier, is that the output is a scaled version of the input, no longer applies.
Different amplifiers will react differently to the overload condition.
We will usually hear that overload.
That is why the second condition exists. We test the comparison during NON-OVERLOADED operation.
I expanded on the frequency response requirement since you seemed to have doubts about whether any conditions should be tacked on to the comparison "test".
Overloading of an amplifier is critical to what comes out during and shortly after the overload condition. During overload, the necessary condition for a competent amplifier, is that the output is a scaled version of the input, no longer applies.
Different amplifiers will react differently to the overload condition.
We will usually hear that overload.
That is why the second condition exists. We test the comparison during NON-OVERLOADED operation.
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So I guess you have run these double blind tests?
It would be interesting to get some high end equipment same amps and just try changing the capacitors coupling etc and do the same..
Regards
M. Gregg
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I can't do "double blind testing".
My "sighted testing" tells me there is not much if anything between different amplifiers.
One anecdote I often see:
"this amplifier lacks bass"
and I immediately think "this Member doesn't know how to assemble an amplifier".
Similar applies for other "response" related comments, on what they are hearing.
My "sighted testing" tells me there is not much if anything between different amplifiers.
One anecdote I often see:
"this amplifier lacks bass"
and I immediately think "this Member doesn't know how to assemble an amplifier".
Similar applies for other "response" related comments, on what they are hearing.
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