In other words, If I am going to use two identical subs in my living room in seperate locations to help get rid of standing waves and therefore "sweet spots", is it enough just to place them in different inconspicuous(sp) locations, or is it necessary to, for example, place them at exact apposite sides of the room, a few feet from the corner?
standing waves are a result of room dimensions surely?
in that case aren't you going to achieve a worse result separating your subs because of comb filtering?
my thoughts would be that you should really keep your bass sources together and move them to an off center location with regards your opposite walls in either direction (can't do much about the floor/ceiling unless you want to hang them)
dunno that's just my take on it
dave
in that case aren't you going to achieve a worse result separating your subs because of comb filtering?
my thoughts would be that you should really keep your bass sources together and move them to an off center location with regards your opposite walls in either direction (can't do much about the floor/ceiling unless you want to hang them)
dunno that's just my take on it
dave
(1) Placement matters...
(2) Not as much as with mono subs...
(3) And there is no easy rule of thumb to say what the "best"
I think if you start with a reasonable location, do some trial and error, figure out where standing waves exist and use that info to assist you in placement, you'll find a good setup.
http://sound.westhost.com/subcon.htm
(2) Not as much as with mono subs...
(3) And there is no easy rule of thumb to say what the "best"
I think if you start with a reasonable location, do some trial and error, figure out where standing waves exist and use that info to assist you in placement, you'll find a good setup.
http://sound.westhost.com/subcon.htm
Hey Paulinator,
At what frequency are you crossing the sub ? I'm planning to do a Shiva sub but can't decide whether to do a single or double. My main system is active & I have to do a 4th stage for the sub.
I was thinking of 80hz as the main system has decent output at this stage. If it does'nt sound right, do you think I can Linkwitz transform the main system to push the output at 80hz, then crossover to the sub or should I crossover higher at maybe 100hz.
Question is, if I crossover at 100hz will the position of the sub be apparent.
cheers,
sunil
At what frequency are you crossing the sub ? I'm planning to do a Shiva sub but can't decide whether to do a single or double. My main system is active & I have to do a 4th stage for the sub.
I was thinking of 80hz as the main system has decent output at this stage. If it does'nt sound right, do you think I can Linkwitz transform the main system to push the output at 80hz, then crossover to the sub or should I crossover higher at maybe 100hz.
Question is, if I crossover at 100hz will the position of the sub be apparent.
cheers,
sunil
Placement is Number One
Proper placement s the difference between good bass and almost no bass. I've had clients that swore that their sub was'nt working and with a little shifting in the room they became very happy. EXPERMENT!!!!!!
Mark
Proper placement s the difference between good bass and almost no bass. I've had clients that swore that their sub was'nt working and with a little shifting in the room they became very happy. EXPERMENT!!!!!!
Mark
Member
Joined 2003
There are some excellent bass/room articles on the Harmon International site (I don't have the link on this computer). One deals specifically with multiple subs...you may find it helpful.
Twin IB subs
Twin IB subs
I use dual subs:
compared to a single it is harder to integrate with the mains, but the sub output is obviously greater & fills the room a lot more (as one would expect)
I xover at 60hz, localisation starts to happen around 80.
I find 100hz is way too high, even if the mains are really small.
compared to a single it is harder to integrate with the mains, but the sub output is obviously greater & fills the room a lot more (as one would expect)
I xover at 60hz, localisation starts to happen around 80.
I find 100hz is way too high, even if the mains are really small.
OK, if localization starts to happen around 80hz & I crossover at 60hz or less, I have to "LInkwitz" the current setup so it does'nt start falling off below the crossover point.
Is that correct ?
Any adverse affects expected ?
Is that correct ?
Any adverse affects expected ?
Ap,
Why is it difficult to integrate with the mains ? Do you have an active cross from mains to subs ? I want to add a 4th leg to my active crossover, so the output below the crossover point is negligible.
cheers,
sunil
Why is it difficult to integrate with the mains ? Do you have an active cross from mains to subs ? I want to add a 4th leg to my active crossover, so the output below the crossover point is negligible.
cheers,
sunil
I know it is a sin, but right now I am actually sort of missing out on some bandwidth. I have a medium/small room with my home-made little Tang Band identical sattelites all the way around consisting of nothing more than a single 871 in each speaker. I know that sounds minimal, but if you heard what it is capable of, you would understand why I am more than content with these for now. Unfortunately I will occasionally hear a driver bottoming out at extremely (and I do mean EXTREMELY, these little puppies really put out, more than you think) high volume levels, so I have my Sony STRDA777ES receiver set to cross them over at 120hz at (another apparent travesty, I know), 12 db per octave. My subs consist of two Vifa 8" drivers per box, and I don't want to cross them over any higher than 80hz. I know this sounds like treason, but you really can't tell that you are missing out on much more than you were before, and the difference would probably be noticable if I were using larger speakers, but right now these sound so good for what they are that I really don't care. And as easy as these were to make, it just makes me care even less. I'll have to post a picture of my so-easy-it's-almost-cheating design on here sometime.
The Paulinator said:
Out of curiosity why do you not want to cross them higher, especially since it sounds like you have 2 subs which could be run as stereo subs close to the mains?
I always hear plenty of localization above 80hz, it seems, and that drives me nuts when there is something coming from the back speakers, but it's lower frequencies are coming from the front of the room. Realism goes out the door.
there is a recording technique using boundary microphones, which involves the mic capsule placed on a level with the wall (boundary). This removes the possibility of comb filtering from reflections from that wall and also the possibility of the standing wave effecting the signal. A standing wave will always have a SPL of zero at the boundaries. So put the subs directly behind the fullrange speakers according to line of sight as close to the wall as possible. Putting the speakers next to the wall also causes the proximity effect, which is not too unfortunate with a sub, becuase you just don't have to push them as hard to get the same level of sound. If you place them line of sight running in stereo and if you're obsessive put a delay on the full ranges of a couple of milliseconds then you should get a good result with as high a crossover point as you want. The only way to get rid of a standing wave properly though is to either build your room an asymmetrical shape, or use loads of bass traps and soft furnishings.
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