so do you think we can achieve the benefits of a single driver speaker using multiway? One problem is you dont get the smooth response as you sit up and stand down because the tweeter and woofer are at difference distances to you.
Whats the problem with coaxial then? why isnt it as good as separate drivers?
KEF and TAD have seemingly perfected it?
not in the case of pebbles in jars. you cant compare cable risers to full range vs multiway. There is something unique about having a single driver producing all sounds which you dont hear with multi way. The step response is much sharper.
oh lord, I used widebanders in my youth
and I might try it again if I build that tube amp
but i remember my last fullrange driver 'project', trying to implement a planar tweeter
worked quite well with Quad II amps
but when I wanted bass, madness took over ...
This seems to me to be a crossover implementation issue more than anything else. Poorly done, one can pick out each driver pretty easily on axis let alone moving around the room. With a good implementation the drivers speak as one.
yes, back then the wideband driver really were better because noone knew a thing about crossovers
designers could do the math
and that was it
ofcourse it never worked very well
its a totally different game today
but ofcourse, even today, some may still be better than others 😀
long time since I have listened to a commercial speaker
and I sure hope they have improved, a lot, and I expect they have
but just 10-15 years ago they still had problems
designers could do the math
and that was it
ofcourse it never worked very well
its a totally different game today
but ofcourse, even today, some may still be better than others 😀
long time since I have listened to a commercial speaker
and I sure hope they have improved, a lot, and I expect they have
but just 10-15 years ago they still had problems
you need to hear some high end speakers and also real life rock concerts. You're still young do it while you have the energy.
really ... wow 😀 ... and I thought you were the young one ... or maybe even a girlie
but rock concerts and highend speakers ?... oh man 😱
The frequency response of any driver varies depending on the listening position relative to on-axis. This makes single driver speakers susceptible to FR errors standing vs. sitting as well.
Co ax often suffer from diffraction problems at the juncture between the high and the low.
Some coaxials have reduced the problems to where most would find thier problems are not as big as the inherent problems of a single " full range" driver.
The Synergy multiple driver arrangement on a single conical horn has the advantage of uniform pattern control down to a relatively low frequency from a virtual single point source.
I was trying to point out that people can believe a lot of nonsense.
Like most people on the forum I have heard single driver speakers and multi-driver speakers. What I have failed to do is identify anything particularly attractive about the sound from single driver speakers.
I think you might be wise to do some homework on what a step/impulse response represents. Here are some measurements (click on RHS menu) of an obsolete multi-driver monitor with a 12" bass driver. What does that impulse response tell you?
you have to listen to the right one. They aren't all the same. Also you might have poor judgment. Some non audiophiles can sit in front of Yg acoustics and not hear anything nice.
faulty measurements
Clearly, you mean two or more drivers at DIFFERENT LOCATIONS on a baffle. I'd have thought "more like a full ranger unit" would be a GOOD thing.
But...
This is getting OT, but strangely enough, we got computers and sequencers than can play "perfect music" but people still prefer musicians. A little studying about drummers being "in the groove" or "in the pocket" (good drummers can make amazingly subtle changes in timing), one can probably figure out why. I recall when MIDI sequencers were new, there were efforts to add random variation in timing and loudness of each note in order to "humanize" a step-sequenced "performance."
With the mention of coaxial and MTM, I'm envisioning an expansion of the MTM thing - several (three, four, five or six, or howevermany will fit) midrange drivers on the baffle in a circle around the tweeter. Has this ever been done? The impedances and wiring are of course a little more complicated with so many midrange drivers, unless one uses an active crossover and a separate amplifier for each frequency band.
You can call it the Bradley configuration. 🙂
you can add timing variations to the point where it becomes the same as a human being.
you would get too much lobing
hi benb,
Yes it has been done..Have a look at this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/83155-loudspeaker-circular-arc-line-arrays.html#post961582
By using 2" mids instead of the shown Tweeters and a wide dispersion Tweeter at the center this offers IME a very good arrangement for a center Speaker.
It's nor a Bradley configuration but a b' design. 😀
b🙂
Actually, there are two things unique:
1) Rapid pattern collapse up top.
2) Uncontrolled driver breakup in the HF (Usually; many "full range" types are allergic to modern filtering, which is the main reasons why such speakers usually sound awful. There are exceptions, such as Bob Brines' designs.)
Really, let's not overthink things here.
Donald North (who is listed as the principal inventor on a number of the Aurasound patents, particularly around their "Whisper" drivers) designed a speaker that used 4 5.25" woofers arrayed around a tweeter.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I've never heard them, but I'd love to.
cone breakup at 7or8khz is too high to be heard much. Try to hear how high 7 or 8 khz is. Its almost inaudible.
You can get very close with a well done FAST. Small FR with good HF (and HF dispersion) crossed to woofer(s) low enuff that they can be within a 1/4 wavelength of each other (ie coincedent without the issues of co-axial) and enuff overlap to allow 1st order XOs.
They will still have issues but one can get seriously good with intelligent design desicions.
dave
Tell that to someone who struggles with the peak at said frequency in a Fostex FE126/127, FF125wk. Doesn't bother some people, drives others crazy.
dave
"cone breakup at 7or8khz is too high to be heard much. Try to hear how high 7 or 8 khz is. Its almost inaudible. "
it is not immediately audible. but it will become very annoying over short period of time. try to listen to a whole music album with that breakup, I bet you'll want to turn down a volume after a few songs, or just turn music off.
Even 30khz breakup in tweeters is a problem(not everyone agree on that one though)
it is not immediately audible. but it will become very annoying over short period of time. try to listen to a whole music album with that breakup, I bet you'll want to turn down a volume after a few songs, or just turn music off.
Even 30khz breakup in tweeters is a problem(not everyone agree on that one though)