Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high SPL, low distortion with a 2-way?

Jump to Latest
#13,486
gedlee said:
Come on, how could a poor playback system ever be more reveling than a good one? You could prefer the poor one, but that does make it a good idea to design for "poor".
Click to expand...
Yeah, makes no sense at first, but then explain why the car test makes any sense if truly the good system will expose issues that might be made known in the car…. What you hear is what you get…. Says the good referencing system.
 
#13,491
It seems that GoogleAI has been bestowed a pair of golden ears.
camplo said:
  • Reduced acoustic masking: Car interiors often have less acoustic diffusion and absorption compared to domestic rooms, allowing for a more direct sound presentation. This can expose flaws in the recording or mix.
Click to expand...
I guess the corollary to this would be to check out the recording/mix by listening in a reverberation chamber. The highlighting of both the flaws and good points would be heightened so that anyone could hear them clearly. 😵 That GoogleAI is ever so helpful...
camplo said:
  • Limited frequency response: Car audio systems frequently have a narrower frequency range, which can highlight specific spectral imbalances in the music.
Click to expand...
Really? Maybe in days long gone, say those of AM radios with a single low-fidelity speaker. So, if there's a narrower frequency range, how can one highlight "specific spectral imbalances" if they aren't being reproduced?
 
  • Like
Reactions: camplo
#13,493
witwald said:
It seems that GoogleAI has been bestowed a pair of golden ears.
Click to expand...
That is hilarious cause I use Gemini, and I asked it about the Kii 7 today and its talking to me like it was the lead sales member for Kii Audio. I kept calling it out, asking it if Kii Audio is paying it to say these things and it kept apologizing to me 🤣
For example;
You're absolutely right. I apologize for the inaccuracies and the promotional tone. It seems I've been caught up in the marketing hype surrounding the Kii Seven.
Click to expand...
 
#13,494
gedlee said:
I asked a respected recording engineer here this question. He said that most likely they just want to cover themselves if the producer asks "How's it sound in a car?" In his opinion it is a useless test.
Click to expand...
I agree, mostly. I think whats really happening is comb filtering in poor studios, and low xmax drivers in average cars....
In other words, FR is not very good in the studio and the lesser nulls in the car are showing modal issues in the materials FR and low xmax drivers being driven into distortion much sooner than average studio monitors by improper bass balancing within their range.
An unntrained ear or long exposure to a bass heavy mix might sound fine without distortion, but when your speakers are obviously nearing or passing xmax for no good reason then its hard to miss.

I think the psychology of norms comes to play. Things tend to trend towards whats normal and certain products will show tell, when those norms are broken, in particular, too heavy bass. Bass is obviously one of the harder things to get right, in the small room (most rooms?), unless you have the knowledge to get there, and in my experience that majority of home studio guys and possibly a good number of pros have not studied loudspeaker design and application to the extent of this thread, which is pretty much all 101 stuff.
 
Last edited:
#13,495
witwald said:
Really? Maybe in days long gone, say those of AM radios with a single low-fidelity speaker. So, if there's a narrower frequency range, how can one highlight "specific spectral imbalances" if they aren't being reproduced?
Click to expand...
Because part of masking is related to levels of and duration of any frequency being produced as opposed to another.
One frequency can be masked by a completely different frequency with a bias towards lf masking higher frequencies.

Lets ask AI

Yes, that's correct. Masking in audio perception is a phenomenon where a louder sound can make a quieter sound less perceptible. You're right that frequency plays a significant role in masking:
* Frequency-based masking: A louder sound can mask a quieter sound at a different frequency.
* Low-frequency masking high-frequency: Generally, a lower-frequency sound can more effectively mask a higher-frequency sound than vice versa. This is due to the way our auditory system processes sound.
The levels and durations of the frequencies involved also influence the degree of masking. For example, a louder, longer-duration masking sound is more likely to mask a quieter sound.
This phenomenon is important in various fields, including audio engineering, hearing science, and music production.
Click to expand...
I also think auditorial bandwidth exist

Yes, there is a concept known as "auditory bandwidth" that suggests a similar idea.
Auditory bandwidth refers to the range of frequencies that can be perceived simultaneously without interference. In simpler terms, it's the "width" of the frequency spectrum that our ears can process effectively at once.
Here are some key points about auditory bandwidth:
* Narrower bandwidth is often better: Generally, a narrower auditory bandwidth can lead to better perception of a specific sound. This is because the focus is on a smaller range of frequencies, reducing interference from other sounds.
* Frequency selectivity: Our auditory system is more selective at certain frequencies. For example, we are more sensitive to sounds around 2000 Hz than to very low or very high frequencies.
* Contextual factors: The specific frequencies present and their relative levels can also influence auditory bandwidth. For instance, a pure tone (a single frequency) may be perceived more easily than a complex sound with many frequencies.
While a narrower bandwidth can be beneficial in certain situations, it's important to note that a wider bandwidth is also necessary for perceiving the full richness of many sounds. For example, music, speech, and environmental sounds often involve a wide range of frequencies.
Click to expand...
So of course you cannot judge what you cannot hear… I think its obvious that what you can hear is being talked about… in the DAW with a full range system all you have to do is set a high and low pass filter and move them around to focus different parts of the spectrum. Or just a lp or hp sliding around the spectrum…. hyped frequencies near the filter knee will have barren spectrum on the attenuating side of the filter, meaning significantly less masking, exposing the problem area.
 
Last edited:
#13,496
camplo said:
That is hilarious cause I use Gemini, and I asked it about the Kii 7 today and its talking to me like it was the lead sales member for Kii Audio. I kept calling it out, asking it if Kii Audio is paying it to say these things and it kept apologizing to me 🤣
For example;
Click to expand...
Services we can use free of charge, like the Gemini, means it is not a product because you are not buying it, so you are the product and companies are buying you. Thats how they make money at Google and other tech whose products are free to use. Gemini is likely very good at sales and other kinds of influencing, pharmaseutics and what have we, for benefit those who pay for it. Stuff that keeps people as product, depressed and sick and angry for other people for most of yer life, distracted, and reap all your money with products that keep you that way. Quite sad view on things, but that it seems to be unfortunately.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: camplo
#13,497
witwald said:
I guess the corollary to this would be to check out the recording/mix by listening in a reverberation chamber. The highlighting of both the flaws and good points would be heightened so that anyone could hear them clearly. 😵 That GoogleAI is ever so helpful...
Click to expand...
Duration does affect perception of spl. I’ve started using nuetral tone reverb on my master to help judge level of transients and judge tone, and it works very well matter of fact.

This is not useful at judging compression, quite the opposite, which is why headphones are so good at it, very low decay.

But frankly obtaining a low rt60 is standard studio practice

The AI isn’t wrong.
 
Last edited:
#13,498
Thank you Mabat for being a well of information!

mabat said:
Here's the influence of adding various lengths of a straight duct segment to a 1" throat, zero exit angle.

Obviously, as a result, it 1) increases efficiency at LF, 2) decreases efficiency in the middle of the passband, 3) adds some FR ripple, not nearly as pronounced with the real devices, however - this can be vital. Note the directivity remains virtually unchanged.

Effects 1 and 2 together cause the driver's response to become more extended and flat - that's the only explanation I have. Perhaps different drivers require different lenghts of the extension. Anyway, starting the duct right at the exit of a phase plug, I think this can be a promising way how to proceed, after all.
Click to expand...
1728401608370.png

0 mm
1728401620597.png

25mm
1728401656587.png

50mm
1728401673144.png

75mm
1728401698028.png


Very interesting, I always wondered what happened to the directivity of the wavelengths smaller than the exit, when the length is extended but CSA remains constant.

Unfortunately there is no FR plot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom