I find that this is my preference too. With high BL and excursion, you can do almost anything. B&C does excel at this adding to their reliability, etc.
At least in the lower registers. Almost. I would like to know which B&C woofer can hit the 20-30Hz range cleanly and at the same time playing well in the midrange. Let's not even talk about the range below 20Hz.
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I was not here always. Just asked a simple question about B&C woofers, as which one is good at 20Hz and midrange at the same time. An IPAL? Because these have the highest BL²/Re of them? The 18IPAL even has a nice flat frequency response up to 800Hz for example.
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I believe that you are looking at free field data. That's not very representative of what a driver will do in a small room. In the room case motor power and excursion capability alone will pretty much take care of what is required. "Cleanly" depends on excursion capability almost exclusively. With EQ at the low end you can get any frequency response you want as long as "excursion" holds out - which is simply an SPL dominate thing. Hence, "cleanly" is entirely a "max SPL" relationship since I can always over-excurt something to the point at which it is not "clean". My room with B&C LF drivers can reach about 120dB "cleanly" - so they do exist.
PS I don;t fallow spec sheets or manufacturers, but I do the basic theory behind all of them.
IMO if someone wants to know which type of woofers are intended for 2-way/midbass duty, check the coaxial drivers of a selected manufacturer.
B&C for example, the highest woofer Mms of their 15" coaxials is 94g, Le=0.95mH, Qms=12.6, reference efficiency is 4%.
If separate sub(s) would be used, there is no need to go down below 40Hz with a 2-way main speaker anyway.
B&C for example, the highest woofer Mms of their 15" coaxials is 94g, Le=0.95mH, Qms=12.6, reference efficiency is 4%.
If separate sub(s) would be used, there is no need to go down below 40Hz with a 2-way main speaker anyway.
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Charcoal mica + clear finish in the first (over charcoal stain), a portion of pitch black stain added to the blend in the second.
I think I like it, and if it gets darker with another coat, I can like that as well.
I think I like it, and if it gets darker with another coat, I can like that as well.
That all depends on the use case, because if you don't consider that the total amount of EQ will ever be a problem, sure.
But low Qt, often means a very high amount of compensation if you want to go low.
@gedlee
The Car Test
I have never brought up the car test in this thread. There is something to be said about the car test. Not all cars are created equal but there must be enough of them to cause the phenomena that trends us towards, the car test. The car test could be an anomaly like the NS10 but I would like to understand what could be the cause.
I can somewhat agree with those statements from googleAI, above, but I see something interesting to speculate. The blue circles on the pic above are places I think are common locations for speakers. The shape of the boundaries are like that of a waveguide. The speakers are essentially in or very near corners, thus loaded. "Floor to ceiling height in an average full-size sedan is typically around 38 to 42 inches." supposedly.
I think its the reduction in arrival times, that lead to an increase in clarity, leading us to what is known as the Car Test.
I think the next logical question is; clarity in what in particular. As in what are we able to supposedly hear better, in the car. Tone... Spl levels of transients and sustained notes. As I write this, I am thinking about how duration of signal increases our sensitivity spl level, so the lesser decay of the car cabin seems counter intuitive. In my in ear monitors, arrival times are very low of course, and using the addition of a frequency neutral reverb has helped me to sculpt tone and adjust transient levels. It is very effective actually. I know this is all speculation and subjectivity but it appears that the average automobile acoustical environment is providing a type of vulnerability. Has anyone else speculation on what causes this trend? I think this is interesting, you have to consider that we are dealing with all types of system voicings and variables but somehow the Car Test suggest an increase in signal vulnerability aka accuracy.
Directivity causes a reduction in arrival times....
The Car Test
I have never brought up the car test in this thread. There is something to be said about the car test. Not all cars are created equal but there must be enough of them to cause the phenomena that trends us towards, the car test. The car test could be an anomaly like the NS10 but I would like to understand what could be the cause.
- Reduced acoustic masking: Car interiors often have less acoustic diffusion and absorption compared to domestic rooms, allowing for a more direct sound presentation. This can expose flaws in the recording or mix.
- Limited frequency response: Car audio systems frequently have a narrower frequency range, which can highlight specific spectral imbalances in the music.
I can somewhat agree with those statements from googleAI, above, but I see something interesting to speculate. The blue circles on the pic above are places I think are common locations for speakers. The shape of the boundaries are like that of a waveguide. The speakers are essentially in or very near corners, thus loaded. "Floor to ceiling height in an average full-size sedan is typically around 38 to 42 inches." supposedly.
I think its the reduction in arrival times, that lead to an increase in clarity, leading us to what is known as the Car Test.
I think the next logical question is; clarity in what in particular. As in what are we able to supposedly hear better, in the car. Tone... Spl levels of transients and sustained notes. As I write this, I am thinking about how duration of signal increases our sensitivity spl level, so the lesser decay of the car cabin seems counter intuitive. In my in ear monitors, arrival times are very low of course, and using the addition of a frequency neutral reverb has helped me to sculpt tone and adjust transient levels. It is very effective actually. I know this is all speculation and subjectivity but it appears that the average automobile acoustical environment is providing a type of vulnerability. Has anyone else speculation on what causes this trend? I think this is interesting, you have to consider that we are dealing with all types of system voicings and variables but somehow the Car Test suggest an increase in signal vulnerability aka accuracy.
Directivity causes a reduction in arrival times....
I was gone for awhile,
The only reason that I can think of for the "car test" is because almost 80% of all music is listened to that way. So you need to know that it won't sound bad. Otherwise there is nothing that I can think of that would be better in a car.
The only reason that I can think of for the "car test" is because almost 80% of all music is listened to that way. So you need to know that it won't sound bad. Otherwise there is nothing that I can think of that would be better in a car.
That is a very straight forward answer but what exactly about the environment is causing mix/mastering flaws to become perceivable while lost upon, inside the studio? Increasing Decay seems to enhance perception to spl. Maybe the car has resonance in certain areas that help expose tone and level flaws.
Floor to ceiling height in an average full-size sedan is typically around 38 to 42 inches.
The side-to-side dimension (or width) of a full-size sedan typically ranges from 60 to 64 inches
The interior length of a full-size sedan usually ranges from 100-110 inches (8.3-9.2 feet)
We are likely not dealing with a tuned FR in the common car.
@Patrick Bateman -Do you have any other data to show the general idea of the acoustics inside a car?
Floor to ceiling height in an average full-size sedan is typically around 38 to 42 inches.
The side-to-side dimension (or width) of a full-size sedan typically ranges from 60 to 64 inches
The interior length of a full-size sedan usually ranges from 100-110 inches (8.3-9.2 feet)
We are likely not dealing with a tuned FR in the common car.
@Patrick Bateman -Do you have any other data to show the general idea of the acoustics inside a car?
That leads to the question of why would it sound bad in the car, but not inside the studio?
@gedlee I propose that there are 2 aspects to monitor, Comb Filtering and Decay. This could be true for all reference systems. I foresee the need for at least 2 listening environments for the sound engineer. One with a long evenly toned Decay and one that was Critically Dampened. The interesting thing is that I don't see Comb Filtering ever helping perception, only the opposite. Exaggerated or excessive comb filtering, could it enhance any aspect of Perception in the way increasing Duration (Decay) does? I don't think so, but I will surely try and test it out. I think that Comb Filtering is the opposer of clarity and never desirable accept within sound design.
How does one create a long evenly toned Decay without inducing more Comb filtering?
How does one create a long evenly toned Decay without inducing more Comb filtering?
That measurement was done by Andy Wehmeyer when he worked at JBL, he now owns the company "Audio Frog"
He may be responsive if you reach out to him. He's on Facebook.
Thats crazy cause by chance the other measurement I thought to show was from.... AudioFrog and I am at the mercy of Google searching... What are the odds...
This is the measurement of some random car at the drivers headrest I do believe
This is the measurement of some random car at the drivers headrest I do believe
