Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high SPL, low distortion with a 2-way?

[suparub]

Little parenthesis about 2 way systems : I want to cover 40Hz - 800Hz with one capable driver. Would it be possible with a (folded?) horn based enclosure as the one below or should I stick with a vented one ?





Thx !

 

[Ro808]

As expected the 15HP1060 is king with 9805 N / m.

 

[Ro808]

Little parenthesis about 2 way systems : I want to cover 40Hz - 800Hz with one capable driver. Would it be possible with a (folded?) horn based enclosure as the one below or should I stick with a vented one ?

Thx !

Such horns are good to about 200-300Hz max.
For 800Hz, I would definitely go vented.

 

[Ro808]

Basically:

Softer Suspension = Smaller Enclosure
Stiffer Suspension = Larger Enclosure

This does not apply to the type of woofers we're discussing here. For car and HIFI/Home cinema subs it does.

 

[suparub]

In general, such horns are good to about 300-400Hz max.
For 800Hz, I would definitely go vented.

Thanks for the light ! Now this will be off topic and I'm sorry for that, but what would you advice if I wanna go with a folded horn anyways and cover the 200Hz - 800Hz range in a powerful way ?

The Subs : RCF LF15N401 - 15" Woofer
Tops / Compressions drivers : RCF ND840 - 1.4" Compression Driver

I am looking for something light and powerful. I was thinking RCF MR10N301 - 10" Sealed Basket but maybe they are lighter alternatives ?


Now closing the parenthesis.

 

[Ro808]

Is this for PA?
I wouldn't mix folded horns with BR cabs.
Most sensible would be another (mid) horn solution on top of these.
Plenty of projects available on speakerplans and the pro forums.

Peter Morris' mid/highs come to mind.

 

[suparub]

Is this for PA?
I wouldn't mix folded horns with BR cabs.
Most sensible would be another (mid) horn solution on top of these.
Plenty of projects available on speakerplans and the pro forums.

Peter Morris' mid/highs come to mind.

Yes for PA, outdoor use mainly. For sure I don't plan to mix two types of enclosure, or it will be a 2 way with BR, or a 3 way with FH/TH

Thx

 

[voodooless]

Agreed with the caveat 'at low power' likely in a typical HIFI/HT apps based on published specs due to a higher inductance, breakup modes BW yielding more so called 'inner detail', which at higher power is masked and the FX's better damped breakup modes makes for a more pistonic output, which yields a more technically correct wide range response, hence can maintain a bit more clarity at higher SPLs.

Based on the characteristics you mentioned:
"The FX has stronger motor to compensate for the heavier cone, and almost double the excursion."

It's a common misconception, that 'boosting' certain parameters can be compensated for by reinforcing others with impunity .
While theoretically it seems perfectly possible and is true up to some extent (Akabak sims would be more or less confirmative), you'll loose some subtle nuances along the way.

Technically, this stuff gets complicated quickly and personally, I don't think the electro-mechano-acoustical equivalent circuit is sufficient to include the effects of these nuances.

[..snip..]

I have to admit the differences between between the FX560 and PR400 will be minor, especially up to 600, 700Hz.
Now that I've checked the specsheet it's obvious the 15FX560 is (still) something in between a woofer and a midwoofer.
If you compare the 15HP1060 though, differences become more obvious. Just look at the cone.

This morning, I was discussing a crossover at 1200hz and in this case the extended and clean midrange of the PR400 pays off.
Obviously GM is right, 700Hz would be better.

In the right cab and with proper tuning, the PR400 pretty much achieves similar low freq. extension as a generic 1500 Watt PA (not car audio) subwoofer driver. The differences are primarily SPL related.
The PR400 achieves this with considerably less excursion, but in change needs a larger volume of air.

Thanks guys for the insights . What I can indeed see is that the inductance above 500Hz is quite a bit lower of the PR400 despite the higher Le.

Also interesting is that in simulation, the PR400 seems to have about 2dB more output below 100Hz if you give it some room compared to the FX.

So okay, I'm sold.. you guys saved me some money. I can also save on the amp, since it will reach excursion limit at 150W already

.. now I'll only need to find an acceptable design for my wife ..

 

[GM]

I want to cover 40Hz - 800Hz with one capable driver.

The way to do this wide a BW is to use either at least [4] big mid bass horn drivers or [2] high Qt drivers to get the low end 'bump' and only horn load the mids, but don't know of any high Qt prosound drivers, so wouldn't make a lot of SPL, especially for long periods.

GM

 

[Ro808]

OK, how?

GM

I've been contemplating my proposal, but all things considered such an A15-8A/M500 clone would probably result in something very similar to Tony Gee's Calpamos.

 

[Ro808]

I like the concept of the A15-8A/M500 and it fits the topic perfectly.

 

[GM]

Yeah, except for changing, rearranging dimensions [don't like narrow/deep], looks good...... these folks chose to start with a pair of M500: The Altec-Lansing Model 19-MR3: The Loudspeaker That Never Was - Audiophile Nirvana

GM

 

[Ro808]

Yep, have read that one and this one too

That Eminence on top... butt ugly and unnecessary in my opion.

 

[norman bates]

that diffraction horn in post #1751 (above) reminds me of a ev hp640/940, very reverby.

 

[Ro808]

It's the Mantaray 994A.

 

[Ro808]

Specsheet:

 

[Ro808]

This appears to be an example factory XO mismatch between the Mantaray 994A horn and the 909-8A comp. driver that has contributed to the bad reputation of diffraction horns.

 

[suparub]

The way to do this wide a BW is to use either at least [4] big mid bass horn drivers or [2] high Qt drivers to get the low end 'bump' and only horn load the mids, but don't know of any high Qt prosound drivers, so wouldn't make a lot of SPL, especially for long periods.

GM

Thank you GM ! As a reference, any advices on big midbass horn models that would fit to match the SPL of my configuration ?

Edit: the only one Ive found is the cutie Beyma 605Nd, wondering why this baby has been discontinued

 

[Ro808]

909-8A:

 

[GM]

Yep, have read that one and this one too

That Eminence on top... butt ugly and unnecessary in my opion.

Definitely wouldn't be my choice, though for HIFI apps feel all these type horns need a super tweeter for those folks [mostly women] that hear real good up high, though if spinning old vinyl, tapes it can be a crap shoot since some prefer rather dull top ends. Over time I came to learn that Magnepans were the most liked among females of all ages, though none could really explain why: Magnepan measurement - Google Search

Actually, all this M15 stuff started back in the early 2000s when I did various versions of the M19 from compact to MLTL that were built in some form or other [builders adding their own 'slant'] plus I did some except configured for a 511/800 Hz XO [modded M19], which several claimed they would + do the XO changes, but never happened AFAIK.

GM