As I recall, we attempted as low as 500 Hz, but the JBL 2445, (equivalent in Sd to your Axi2050) did not sound good crossed that low at high SPL.
We used a higher crossover, making polar response go from bad to worse. That said, in live stage monitor use requiring maximum gain, bad polar response results in feedback, while for playback it simply is a level and tonality "fail" that won't be as easy to detect.
The "optimal" ctc spacing is none, and an octave can make a very big difference. If you cross your HF driver at 300 Hz, comb filtering shouldn't be a major problem, but HF sound quality at the level required to keep up with two 15" will be.
I don't think it will ever be driven so hard for it to push Hf hard enough...
I'm just thinking of the direct energy increase and the spreading of heat energy in the voice coils. Maybe the increased low freq extension can be used to further help out the 18's? increased directivity, Stuff like that.
If midrange is the meat, then overkill should be there, and maybe not so much, lower bass where distortion is less perceived?
I'm just thinking of the direct energy increase and the spreading of heat energy in the voice coils. Maybe the increased low freq extension can be used to further help out the 18's? increased directivity, Stuff like that.
If midrange is the meat, then overkill should be there, and maybe not so much, lower bass where distortion is less perceived?
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Hi camplo,
I came across this post by sheer chance - it would be appreciated if you could please report any future bugs using the Hornresp thread, where I am sure to see them.
The "glitch" you have identified will be fixed in the next update.
Kind regards,
David
No problem, David, I had you in mind but I got side tracked.
Twin 15" mids....All that Sd along with FIR filtering optimized for a one man listening position....
If you had to finely eq and tweak the dynamics of a bunch of material as fast as possible, don't you think you'd want all that Sd?
Twin 15" mids....All that Sd along with FIR filtering optimized for a one man listening position....
If you had to finely eq and tweak the dynamics of a bunch of material as fast as possible, don't you think you'd want all that Sd?
Tweak in what way?? How much compression you need?? Single 15" systems seem more than adequate. As in capable of beating you to death with bass slam. I am using them for listening though not as a mastering tool.
I thought your goal was 110 to 115 db?? That can easily be met with a single 15 without the other issues a side by side design introduces.
Rob
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OK, then, ~13543/4/15.56 = ~217.6 Hz ideal XO point with a horn that ideally needs to be centered behind the bass bin, so at this point a huge Unity/Synergy horn is the goal.
10^6/[217.6*32.5] = ~141.41 deg F6 polar response, so this would be the horn goal with a ~108.8 Hz/4th order F24, so assume the driver will need to be a point source coax if separate woofer/horn combo.
I assume this would be too wide a polar response for a studio app, so need to rethink it to narrow it up [wider baffle], raise XO point [use 'pancake' profile horn same as some other dual horizontal woofer monitors]
Right now I am sorta wanting to know more about decay....there seems to be more than one type of decay....which might be sorta like saying there is more than one type of mode...
It was said that eq can fix decay. Eq cannot fix the standing modes of an enclosure....or does it do that too before I bite my tongue.
If EQ can fix the issue of all things decay then whats the use of room treatment? Just to decrease decay in a broadband type of way?
It was said that eq can fix decay. Eq cannot fix the standing modes of an enclosure....or does it do that too before I bite my tongue.
If EQ can fix the issue of all things decay then whats the use of room treatment? Just to decrease decay in a broadband type of way?
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I thought I'd find a pic that might make you guys cringe lol
Most of the complaints I have heard from peoples opinions I consider to way heavy are surrounded by higher xo points regarding side by side 15"s
If I did try TMM with side by side woofers, being crossed so low it may not be an issue at all and much more of a win...if not....why not?
Alternatives
I could make a MTM 15+horn+15 use one 18" on each bottom then use the other 2 18's for the subs independently located.
I could do isobaric for the midrange?
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Because i've been exposed to the same kind of loudspeakers th4001+ 2x12" (half of one side in pictures but from Kinoshita, not Tad/Exclusive) i would not cry for this: sweetspot must be 20cm wide!
With only one (Kino version of this )horn it could be different though ( basically a Kino' Warp monitor)...
Camplo, you can make many different layout with the drivers you have ( and knowledge you gained too). But without having prototype builds it is only ideas on screen. Only builts will give you the 'real' issues you should focus on imho.
What are this decay concerns you have?
With only one (Kino version of this )horn it could be different though ( basically a Kino' Warp monitor)...
Camplo, you can make many different layout with the drivers you have ( and knowledge you gained too). But without having prototype builds it is only ideas on screen. Only builts will give you the 'real' issues you should focus on imho.
What are this decay concerns you have?
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There is no substitute for room treatment. FIR filter can do some tricks in both time and frequency domain, but will only make it easier
I cannot tell if you are for or against side by side mid woofer. You say with one horn it could work? I only have one horn planned. My suggestion is that being crossed at 300hz, comb filtering will not be a huge issue. 200hz is the coupling frequency.
So how do we end up needing more than eq to fix modes? My guess is that for room treatment only group delay would be left if we fixed the FR with filters.
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The pros aren't saying "let go" per say.....we are in discussion lol
WeltSys was against it completely until XO point and lack of issue of feedback, was brought about. One person said "I have mixed on Westlake monitors with the side by side 15's. Even at a distance I could hear the odd phase distortion as you move your head. Ears are horizontal so much easier to hear the different path lengths as opposed to vertical orientation."
Once again I question the improvement to be had from lowering the XO
Sounds like an improvement on Midrange to me?
WeltSys was against it completely until XO point and lack of issue of feedback, was brought about. One person said "I have mixed on Westlake monitors with the side by side 15's. Even at a distance I could hear the odd phase distortion as you move your head. Ears are horizontal so much easier to hear the different path lengths as opposed to vertical orientation."
Once again I question the improvement to be had from lowering the XO
Sounds like an improvement on Midrange to me?