I finally received a response from a kind member of the Spotify community:-
Your device (iPod Touch 4th Generation) isn’t compatible with the Spotify app, as the application needs iOS 14 or later, and the latest version for iPod Touch 4th Generation is iOS 6.1.6.
I'm just wondering whether there is a way to resolve this problem so I can stream music to the iPod from my phone. The Spotify app on my phone needs to recognise the iPod somehow.
Your device (iPod Touch 4th Generation) isn’t compatible with the Spotify app, as the application needs iOS 14 or later, and the latest version for iPod Touch 4th Generation is iOS 6.1.6.
I'm just wondering whether there is a way to resolve this problem so I can stream music to the iPod from my phone. The Spotify app on my phone needs to recognise the iPod somehow.
Thanks for that suggestion @rabbitz - that is definitely a sensible way to resolve the problem
.That raises a few questions - does the iPhone 6 have a DAC that is just as good as the Wolfson DAC in the iPod G4 if not better?, I did a bit of research online and this is what I found in regards to the DAC in the iPhone 6:-
The digital-to-analog converter (DAC) in the iPhone 6 is the Cirrus Logic 338S1201 chip, according to teardowns. That chip is custom-built for Apple, so its specifications aren't public.
Here are the details of the DAC in the Lightening to 3.5mm adapter and Lightening to 32 pin adapter:-
The Lightning to 3.5mm headphone jack adapter includes a DAC with CS4272 Chip, and Apple’s chip number 338S100104. You can google CS4272, it has 24-bit 192kHz 114dB output capability, though I wonder if Apple still limits it to 24-bit 48kHz.
The Lightning to 30 pin Adapter M/N MD823AM/A supports line level audio as it contains within a Wolfson DAC chip.
So I have 3 options:-
- Use the iPhone 6 in the chain instead of the iPod G4 and compare the two in terms of how the music sounds by using the in-built 3.5 mm headphone jack to RCA adapter.
- Get the Lightening to 3.5mm DAC adapter and use it with the iPhone 6 to see if the sound is just as good or better than the iPod G4.
- Use the Lightening to 30 pin which will allow me to retain and use my dock.
If the Cirrus Logic DAC in the iPhone 6 is just as good as the Wolfson DAC in the iPod G4 then that may very well be the solution. I will definitely give it a try.
Just came across a tear down article that mentions the DAC in the Lightening to 30 pin adapter:-
The Wolfson WM8533 DAC.
This solution may have the same or better sound signature than the iPod G4 and the advantage is that it retains the charging ability in conjunction with the docking station.
The Wolfson WM8533 DAC.
This solution may have the same or better sound signature than the iPod G4 and the advantage is that it retains the charging ability in conjunction with the docking station.
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Did a quick test between my Oppo Android phone and the iPhone 6 using headphones, played the exact same songs within Spotify. The Oppo seems to have a good overall balance, the iPhone 6 seems to boost the mids and highs for a more detailed and sparkly end-result. Need to compare the iPhone 6 to the iPod 4G.
Ok, I've just compared both the iPhone 6 and iPod 4G - Wow, I never realised that DACs can make such a notable difference but one has to listen carefully and it can be misleading due to the fact that our brains kick-in and start correcting the sound in realtime. The Wolfson DAC on the iPod G4 certainly gives it more body and depth without the sparkly presence in the highs. Comes across as a more subtle tweak in the mids with a little bit more focus on the upper mids without necessarily effecting the highs too much. Although neither sound bad and it's all about preference, I do like the sound of the Wolfson DAC. Having said that, I do need to run the same test via my processor.
You are right indeed @rabbitz, the iPod is definitely more refined in terms of overall sound signature and fidelity.
By the way, I just came across another post online that references the DAC in the Lightening to 30-pin adapter: Wolfson WM8533 DAC. Might be worth looking into one of those. Not sure if the current versions still have the Wolfson DAC or have they been replaced by Cirrus DACs. I may have to look for one in the used market.
By the way, I just came across another post online that references the DAC in the Lightening to 30-pin adapter: Wolfson WM8533 DAC. Might be worth looking into one of those. Not sure if the current versions still have the Wolfson DAC or have they been replaced by Cirrus DACs. I may have to look for one in the used market.
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I'm just going to make a suggestion, but not stick around. I'm full modern non-OEM DACs these days, so I don't remember how to architect traditional gear plus my DIY projects are done so I only check this site once a month if that. But I do love my Apple Dongle for general purpose, so I'll post.
You might want to check out this site as it has some good legacy Apple information:
https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/index.htm
I don't know if it matters since you are using RCA OUT, but the European Apple Dongles are half the power of USA Apple Dongles.
With that said, the Apple Dongle is pretty awesome:
https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm
The Apple Dongle is well-engineered and well-funded. I'll take it over most OEM DACs. Apple allocated the top Audio Engineers to put out a good product at decent value because they are heavily invested in the iOS ecosystem. More resources than any "Audiophile" company can allocate.
I believe all you need is a 3.5mm to RCA Female jack:
https://www.audioquest.com/accessor.../adaptors/hard-mini-3-5mm-to-from-rca-adaptor
But the exciting thing is the updated, the more modern USB-C to 3.5mm you can run it off a PC. I can confirm it runs with Ubuntu, but I have not tested it with other Operating Systems yet. Under Ubuntu, when you "dmesg" it actually registers as an "iPod" device.
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MU7E2AM/A/usb-c-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter
So I use an USB-A USB-C Adapter like this which cost more than the Apple Dongle itself:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Tripp-Lite/U329-000?qs=byeeYqUIh0OJnLu2gOR/fA==
So PC -> Tripp Lite USB-A USB-C Adapter -> USB-C Apple Dongle -> Headphone I use for like Youtube, etc. at night to keep the noise down. But you can easily stream Music, etc. since it's on a PC as options are unlimited.
Just a suggestion.
I don't see a need for the Lighting Apple Dongle since you skipped those Generations:
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter
So for a small investment of an Adapter, Dongle and possibly a 3.5mm to RCA OUT adapter you can compare it to your legacy system. Reminder it may not be apple to apple comparison since Streaming Services fudge "lossless". If it doesn't work out, you can use it for General Purposes.
Good Luck
You might want to check out this site as it has some good legacy Apple information:
https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/index.htm
I don't know if it matters since you are using RCA OUT, but the European Apple Dongles are half the power of USA Apple Dongles.
With that said, the Apple Dongle is pretty awesome:
https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm
The Apple Dongle is well-engineered and well-funded. I'll take it over most OEM DACs. Apple allocated the top Audio Engineers to put out a good product at decent value because they are heavily invested in the iOS ecosystem. More resources than any "Audiophile" company can allocate.
I believe all you need is a 3.5mm to RCA Female jack:
https://www.audioquest.com/accessor.../adaptors/hard-mini-3-5mm-to-from-rca-adaptor
But the exciting thing is the updated, the more modern USB-C to 3.5mm you can run it off a PC. I can confirm it runs with Ubuntu, but I have not tested it with other Operating Systems yet. Under Ubuntu, when you "dmesg" it actually registers as an "iPod" device.
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MU7E2AM/A/usb-c-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter
So I use an USB-A USB-C Adapter like this which cost more than the Apple Dongle itself:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Tripp-Lite/U329-000?qs=byeeYqUIh0OJnLu2gOR/fA==
So PC -> Tripp Lite USB-A USB-C Adapter -> USB-C Apple Dongle -> Headphone I use for like Youtube, etc. at night to keep the noise down. But you can easily stream Music, etc. since it's on a PC as options are unlimited.
Just a suggestion.
I don't see a need for the Lighting Apple Dongle since you skipped those Generations:
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter
So for a small investment of an Adapter, Dongle and possibly a 3.5mm to RCA OUT adapter you can compare it to your legacy system. Reminder it may not be apple to apple comparison since Streaming Services fudge "lossless". If it doesn't work out, you can use it for General Purposes.
Good Luck
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I tested the USB-C Dongle on Lubuntu BTW. It's minimalistic and has a Volume Control icon on the bottom right.
Volume Control will let you switch between the Apple USB-C Dongle and for example your DisplayPort/HDMI Monitor Speakers.
I believe Apple USB-C Dongle is labeled "Pro Audio" versus something like "HDMI Audio". So set the Volume Control to "Pro Audio" and you should be go to go. Otherwise, sound will be coming out of HDMI.
You can boot Lubuntu off a USB stick without having to install an new OS on your Main System. Just run Lubuntu off a USB stick to test.
So:
Volume Control will let you switch between the Apple USB-C Dongle and for example your DisplayPort/HDMI Monitor Speakers.
I believe Apple USB-C Dongle is labeled "Pro Audio" versus something like "HDMI Audio". So set the Volume Control to "Pro Audio" and you should be go to go. Otherwise, sound will be coming out of HDMI.
You can boot Lubuntu off a USB stick without having to install an new OS on your Main System. Just run Lubuntu off a USB stick to test.
So:
- Download and Run Lubuntu off a USB Stick
- Plug in USB-C Dongle
- Switch to "Pro Audio" under Volume Control
- Open a brower like Firefox with Youtube.
The Apple dongle is an absolute powerhouse. Its only downside is that it uses USB power, not the cleanest power for a DAC to perform optimally.
Even worse if a ground loop's present in your setup.
Otherwise, you'll never want to go back to whatever stock DAC you use previously after trying out the Apple dongle.
Even worse if a ground loop's present in your setup.
Otherwise, you'll never want to go back to whatever stock DAC you use previously after trying out the Apple dongle.
@Drive Shaft - Thank you fir taking the time to share all that useful info, I really enjoyed reading it and going through demos of the references that you provided.
Ok, this is very interesting but I don't have a clear understanding of this approach. Is this to play music off of your laptop or computer?
I want a solution that I can permanently plug into AV processor. Currently, I have an iPod Gen4 plugged into the processor via a powered docking station that extracts the audio from the 30 pin interface at the bottom of the iPod, it also helps to keep the iPod charged. I've then use an app called Tango which runs on the iPod and iPhone. Tango on my iPhone then let's me remote control the iPod. This setup gives me the best sounding end-results.
Today I added my iPhone 6 into the chain and connected in to my preamp processor via a 3.5mm to RCA connector. Th benefit I have from this setup is that the iPhone 6 acts as a Spotify Connect receiver which I can control from my Oppo (Android) phone via the Spotify App. The sound is definitely better than the NVIDIA Shield that engages the higher-end DAC inside my per-amp processor. However, my first impression was that it is not as good good as the iPod. The Wolfson DAC in these older iPods are really good but I'm not sure if the iPod is applying some sort of further equalisation or filtering.
I guess I need to try the Apple dongle and/or the 30 pin to Lightening adapter.
I guess I need to try the Apple dongle and/or the 30 pin to Lightening adapter.
Thanks @Karlsonate - I think I need to try the dongle out and see if I can get my hands on a used old Lightening to 30 pin adapter.
Please ignore my suggestion, at least for your RCA use case. It works PC+dongle, it's just the Dongle is a plug-and-play smart device so PC+dongle+RCA I cannot confirm to work.
I tried playing around with the Volume Control under Lubuntu. From Volume Control, you need to go to Mixer.
Under Mixer, I set Built-In Audio to "Pro Audio" under the Configuration Tab.
From there, with nothing plugged in it just shows your PC hardware.
Once you plug in the USB adapter + USB-C dongle, nothing really shows up.
Only when you plug in headphones into the dongle, does a "USB-C to 3.5mm" show up for Volume control.
This is fine as you can fine tune your Volume under "Output" and "Playback" tabs with "USB-C to 3.5mm" as the target.
But the problem is under USB-C, it's not smart enough to pickup another 3.5mm input connected to the dongle. So I'm having serious doubts by plugging in a 3.5mm to RCA jack if the software will pick it up. Unfortunately, I can't find my 3.5mm to RCA jack to test.
What I used to test was a 3.5mm headphone + microphone splitter I use for my iPhone headset. It works fine for my iPhone 7 lightning to 3.5mm dongle. I plug in the 3.5mm splitter into the lightning dongle and it just works when the iPhone 7 as the source. But I'm guessing USB-C causes issues because when I plug in the 3.5mm splitter into a USB-C dongle, nothing works. Something as simple as I plug in headphones straight into the USB-C dongle, no problems. But once I plug in the 3.5mm splitter then plug headphones into the 3.5mm headphone output, the "USB-C to 3.5mm" volume control never shows up.
So serious doubts this would work for your Use Case.
I tried playing around with the Volume Control under Lubuntu. From Volume Control, you need to go to Mixer.
Under Mixer, I set Built-In Audio to "Pro Audio" under the Configuration Tab.
From there, with nothing plugged in it just shows your PC hardware.
Once you plug in the USB adapter + USB-C dongle, nothing really shows up.
Only when you plug in headphones into the dongle, does a "USB-C to 3.5mm" show up for Volume control.
This is fine as you can fine tune your Volume under "Output" and "Playback" tabs with "USB-C to 3.5mm" as the target.
But the problem is under USB-C, it's not smart enough to pickup another 3.5mm input connected to the dongle. So I'm having serious doubts by plugging in a 3.5mm to RCA jack if the software will pick it up. Unfortunately, I can't find my 3.5mm to RCA jack to test.
What I used to test was a 3.5mm headphone + microphone splitter I use for my iPhone headset. It works fine for my iPhone 7 lightning to 3.5mm dongle. I plug in the 3.5mm splitter into the lightning dongle and it just works when the iPhone 7 as the source. But I'm guessing USB-C causes issues because when I plug in the 3.5mm splitter into a USB-C dongle, nothing works. Something as simple as I plug in headphones straight into the USB-C dongle, no problems. But once I plug in the 3.5mm splitter then plug headphones into the 3.5mm headphone output, the "USB-C to 3.5mm" volume control never shows up.
So serious doubts this would work for your Use Case.
Because it is such a good value, it was just a suggestion so you can compare the sound versus your Wolfson. Legacy systems will not last forever and at some point you may need to move on in the future. So having a backup plan with the latest and greatest Apple DACs with a small investment will keep your options open.
The PC+Dongle+RCA was just a baseline test to see if it works and the sound is ideal. From there, if it had worked it opens doors such as PC+PCI-E USB card which lowers noise if any or PC+PCI-E USB+ USB optical cable which isolates Ground Loops. I power the USB optical with Off Mains SuperCapacitors. The ASM3142 USB chipset is sort of an Audiophile standard that is available on PCI-E USB cards. So you can create a pretty clean PC source in the future if needed.
Or if the Dongle sound is to your liking, you can do something like SuperCapacitors powering a Raspberry Pi 24/7 that is Off Mains. The Raspberry Pi will need a USB-C output though as most Raspberry Pis only have a USB-C Power input. I don't know if there is Spotify Connect Software for Raspberry Pi. I also need to test Raspberry Pi + dongle in the future. Maybe 6-12 months depending on Supply Chain.
But the point is, if the baseline test works and to your liking, it will help you plan for obsolesce down the line and open doors for other options. It's doesn't necessarily need to be PC or Raspberry Pi. It could be an replacement legacy iPod/iPhone device that supports 30-pin, etc. It just opens more doors. But since your preference for now is still the Wolfson + your processor, if a possible solution pops up in my head I'll post. It's just I haven't thought about traditional gear or even modern OEM DACS in such a long time. I just love the Dongle for it's value and for casual use that I tinker with it now and then.
I use to replace the Apple OS with an different OS a long time ago on iPods. The screen is cracked on my iPod mini, but since you started mentioning Wolfson it got me curious and I'm now considering replacing the screen just so I can check out the sound again.
But I don't think Wolfson had unlimited Apple Audiophile resources like the dongle.
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@Drive Shaft - Thank you for the detailed analysis and input. I think I will forgo the Lubuntu based option as per your suggestion.
In future, I'd love to identify an outboard DAC that has the same sound signature or better than the Wolfson. I could always use such a DAC with a streaming transport like the Wiim. In these last few days, I've come to realise that a DAC can make a significant difference.
I really do like the Wofson DAC in my iPod Gen4. Will be nice to get your opinion once you've revived your iPod Mini.
In future, I'd love to identify an outboard DAC that has the same sound signature or better than the Wolfson. I could always use such a DAC with a streaming transport like the Wiim. In these last few days, I've come to realise that a DAC can make a significant difference.
I really do like the Wofson DAC in my iPod Gen4. Will be nice to get your opinion once you've revived your iPod Mini.