There's a difference between big / loud bass and sub-bass. I know R. Kelly has been cancelled but in 'Sex Me' we're shown a note in the intro that on 'normal' stereo you wouldn't be aware of in the main mix. Can subtle sub-bass really be a thing? I was only aware of the amount of sub-bass energy when I owned a club.
Clubs serve alcohol. Alcohol is served in bottles and glasses.
As @waxx observed most of the energy is usually in the kick but in this track the sub-note continues under the kick, forcing the driver to X-max and doing untold damage out of audible range.
Take a listen . . .
Clubs serve alcohol. Alcohol is served in bottles and glasses.
As @waxx observed most of the energy is usually in the kick but in this track the sub-note continues under the kick, forcing the driver to X-max and doing untold damage out of audible range.
Take a listen . . .
That is the influence of modern dub and other "bass music" that comes from the underground. This is present in much of the modern pop and electronic music since the 1990's, and is only noticed on more advanced club systems and the custom systems used in underground electronic music and is what make people dance more. In rock and other non electronic music styles you have the bass sit above the kick fundamentals, but not in modern pop and the electronic music styles that influenced it (starting with dub). And most pa companies don't get that yet. At home you can hear that if you got a big subwoofer that goes low enough, but most don't (or it must be in their hometheater). And that is also the reason why so many young people ask for subwoofers that go to infrasonic and most people here claim that it's not needed as they are older and don't listen to that kind of music.
@waxx Something of a sidebar: we meet a point where the physics aspect of science meets psychology. As a former DJ I've listened to the same tracks 100s of times. In my desktop 2.1 system the mains probably begin to drop-off at 55-60Hz. My sub is good down to 35Hz. But under normal circumstances my sub remains switched off. The overtones coming from the mains give me a hint of the (simple) sub-bass notes. Consequently, the sub(s) remain off - I've heard what they had to say. My brain fills in the details via recollection.
Hand on heart, my subs only exist to annoy my neighbours.
Hand on heart, my subs only exist to annoy my neighbours.
You hear it, but it's not the same effect as when you feel the bass hitting your chest. Standing in a dub or rave where the subs play the fundamental is a total different experience. You live in the UK (says your profile), so many dubdances should be arround. Go to one and feel it yourself. Favorite UK sounds for me are Channel One, Iration Steppas, Aba Shanti I and Sinai. Make sure they are playing on their own set (not every space allows that) and you will hear/feel it. Make also sure you got ear protection, because those systems go loud.
There are psychological studies about that that confirm what we say over decades now. Those studies are not freely availeble on the web, but you can buy access: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(22)01535-4
And all confirm the same, subbass makes people move instinctifly, and gives more satisfaction than music wihout.
There are psychological studies about that that confirm what we say over decades now. Those studies are not freely availeble on the web, but you can buy access: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(22)01535-4
And all confirm the same, subbass makes people move instinctifly, and gives more satisfaction than music wihout.
@waxx I don't need buy a study. I've been there and done that. Did you ever wonder why rave and concert tape packs are more expensive than better quality studio recordings? They prompt your brain to relive an experience rather than listen to external input. In modern writing this is the trigger technique. If I write, "The jumbo jet collided with the skyscraper in a ball of fire. . ." My next line doesn't matter . . . you're brain will recall footage of 9/11.
I guarantee you - it just did.
I guarantee you - it just did.
Well, alot of whats going on here is distorted audio. The energy density in the low end is mainly due to overcompressed audio. Theres nothing special in this music. Its a constant barage of distorted low end noise. The 80s club music, despite being comprised of samples, was mixed and mastered cleaner with alot more headroom, plus the low end was treated with some harmonic enhancement. I love well produced dance music, but this example is just not up to standard for me.
I'd rather listen to this, even though its a modern track -
Just like punk is bad played and simple rock they said...
You don't get it i think. This rave-subculture and it's music genres (of which the example above is very polite and clean actually) is the punk of today. This can be much harder, rougher and distorted, and mostly is today. it's not wanted to sound clean polished like mainstream electronic music, it must be the opposite... and mainstream soundsystems don't fit it neighter.
This was more what i was digging when i was raving when i was younger.
I do get it. I grew up in Europe. I just don't like poorly produced mixes. I used to be a DJ and a remixer. Acid Hoise destroyed the club music scene in the 90s.
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Here's a DAW plug in you probably would love. This is one of the reasons we have badly produced mixes -
https://www.soundtoys.com/product/decapitator/
https://www.soundtoys.com/product/decapitator/
Yeah great. And now what?? This isn't about remembering an experience or having your brain reconstruct a note from the overtones. This is about having an experience. No one here wants to recall the footage of 9/11. We want to experience the heat and the shock and the shaking ground. Overtones don't do that.
I can't stand Stock Aitken Waterman they produced no credible music. With most MOBO genre the bass is the lead. As for the 'experience' (refer to my comments on tape packs) the distortion is part and parcel of the music. It wasn't a good night unless you're changing blown drivers the next day.
Perfection is not necessarily the goal. The best bit of Whitney Houston's "I will always love you" is when she can't quite manage the key change. She sounds desperate, hoarse - which is the point.
Old tracks with decent bass? - "Tag Team - Oomph there it is.", "MC Hammer - Pray."
You're right, i don't get it. I dont understand the whole pointless destruction of good audio gear just to feel like you're a man with some excess testosterone. I grew up in the punk scene, but didn't take part in it because I had more sophisticated tastes. I listened to Talking Heads, XTC and Brian Enp before anyone cared about them. I HATE distorted noise, which the drug infested rave culture brought with it. We had a neighbor kid back where I grew up who destroyed the whole neighborhood with his stupid ecstacy parties. He had the same philosophy as most rave guys. This era in time ruined most modern produced music for good, because now most of these guys call themselves producers, which is a joke. Sorry, its the way it is now.
Just to add my experience, more how genres creates a different approach on loudspeaker design.
I used to work as an engineer for a professional loudspeaker manufacturer.
Sound reinforcement, often called as PA speakers (no quite the same).
Certain genres in Europe, in particular the old rave and hardcore (these days almost all just called hard-style) can be very killing for an audio system.
The very fast bpm in combination with overly emphasis low-end (although not extremely low) en distorted tones will make sure that max thermals are being reached very quickly. Seen from a thermal standpoint they come very close to a sine wave (or multiple).
This is even worse for systems in like clubs in old (German) bunkers, with very poor ventilation.
While reggae for example is relatively slow paced, but puts A LOT of emphasis on the bass.
Even for studio or home hifi use, I always ask what kind of music people listen to.
This is not only important for what the system is capable of, it can be also very important to determine what approach to take in sense of directivity and overal sound stage.
Getting this wrong at a live event can also ruin the experience. Or even ruin your speakers.
I did notice that across countries there also seems to be a preference when it comes down to live sound "color".
From a cultural point of view; it can be fascinating how certain countries are totally obsessed by certain styles music and genres.
Every country has its own unique "quirk" in this. As an outsider it can sometimes a little hard to understand, haha
Even more so when certain local artists are very famous in countries across the world.
I used to work as an engineer for a professional loudspeaker manufacturer.
Sound reinforcement, often called as PA speakers (no quite the same).
Certain genres in Europe, in particular the old rave and hardcore (these days almost all just called hard-style) can be very killing for an audio system.
The very fast bpm in combination with overly emphasis low-end (although not extremely low) en distorted tones will make sure that max thermals are being reached very quickly. Seen from a thermal standpoint they come very close to a sine wave (or multiple).
This is even worse for systems in like clubs in old (German) bunkers, with very poor ventilation.
While reggae for example is relatively slow paced, but puts A LOT of emphasis on the bass.
Even for studio or home hifi use, I always ask what kind of music people listen to.
This is not only important for what the system is capable of, it can be also very important to determine what approach to take in sense of directivity and overal sound stage.
Getting this wrong at a live event can also ruin the experience. Or even ruin your speakers.
I did notice that across countries there also seems to be a preference when it comes down to live sound "color".
From a cultural point of view; it can be fascinating how certain countries are totally obsessed by certain styles music and genres.
Every country has its own unique "quirk" in this. As an outsider it can sometimes a little hard to understand, haha
Even more so when certain local artists are very famous in countries across the world.