Don't want to mix up 'Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII' thread I request mods to move unrelated posts here if possible.
For a start this grabbed my attention just for sheer looks.Pye achiphon I think the record player inside is BSR. Do share if you find any quality turntable or their design aspect worth mentioning, which may help in DIY or improving existing turntables.
Thanks and regards.
For a start this grabbed my attention just for sheer looks.Pye achiphon I think the record player inside is BSR. Do share if you find any quality turntable or their design aspect worth mentioning, which may help in DIY or improving existing turntables.
Thanks and regards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCBzQ2DlQQY
From memory this is a gain killer much in the same way as the Goldring GL 75. BSR MP60 was very like the Garrard SP 25. I think a BSR man designed the latter SP25 mK4 ? As far as I know HT70 is a heavy platter MP60. A friend had one, it had the authority of sound I never heard until the Garrard 401 was tried. Alas I didn't know that turntables mattered so put it down to the friends Goodmans Mezzo speakers and Leak amp when 17.
From memory this is a gain killer much in the same way as the Goldring GL 75. BSR MP60 was very like the Garrard SP 25. I think a BSR man designed the latter SP25 mK4 ? As far as I know HT70 is a heavy platter MP60. A friend had one, it had the authority of sound I never heard until the Garrard 401 was tried. Alas I didn't know that turntables mattered so put it down to the friends Goodmans Mezzo speakers and Leak amp when 17.
Le forum Audio Vintage • Afficher le sujet - BSR P144R
Here the French claim a latter BSR ( ? ) as Belgian ( Birmingham gets mentioned by another ). Good pics. He does say it gives many musical insights ( in the musical plane ) . I like that. English isn't best for saying things where poetry is involved. The Belgium side was the importer. He associated it with Dual. What many don't know is the BSR were the largest in the world bar none ( BSR told me 6 000 000 a year ). The Japaneses could not produce at such a low price. Having seen Chinese turntables of late I would say BSR even when cheap were correct engineering. I remember one of their cheap decks ( £6 ex works inc PU to a manufacturer ) giving a very nice rendition of Simon and Garfunkel albeit it with some rumble on a music centre of a neighbour. She said " you will not be able to listen to this ". Not true, although true of many CD players.
I haven't had to tackle French for 20 years so I might have overlooked a nuance or two.
Looking again I didn't read the double negatives and I have said it gave insights when he said the opposite. Oddly a properly sorted out BSR will give insights. It can even give ultra high end turntables a lesson in pace. The problem is perhaps only a handful of people would start to know how to get this to happen. The plinths don't help and often the decks are very poorly looked after. The basic deck is OK as is the arm if not asked to do too much. One problem is the Shure is rather too good for some preamps if a M44-7. It needs > 68 K loading and the ability to be happy with 10 mV. If a bespoke pre amp built it is an excellent PU which might not be equaled by more expensive Shure's. I put it in the Decca London class. I have used them in SME 5 and can say you would be astonished ( for 78's and then tried with N44-7 on LP ). If the BSR arm is adjusted carefully it isn't a disgrace. This exact version I don't know. It looks a little bit of a budget design. Below MP60 perhaps?
My other half is a Birmingham girl so very close to my heart. She went to school at Small Heath opposite the BSA factory as in BSA Gold Star. Most of my young life was on a BSA with my dad ( C15 , Bantum, A10, A65 ). There were no speed limits then and the deal was " don't tell your mum ". Being a traitor I bought a Triumph Tiger 750. I learned in latter life it was the last genuine Triumph ever made. Sadly the man who sold it didn't say. He almost certainly knew. He only sold it to me because he knew my dad. Even aged four I was fixing the BSA with dad. No joke, I would do the cleaning of the carb etc, fuel jets was my thing. We fixed radios also. Dad isn't a talker so that how he was a dad. At 84 he said stuff the other day he should have said 50 years ago. He got there in the end.
Here the French claim a latter BSR ( ? ) as Belgian ( Birmingham gets mentioned by another ). Good pics. He does say it gives many musical insights ( in the musical plane ) . I like that. English isn't best for saying things where poetry is involved. The Belgium side was the importer. He associated it with Dual. What many don't know is the BSR were the largest in the world bar none ( BSR told me 6 000 000 a year ). The Japaneses could not produce at such a low price. Having seen Chinese turntables of late I would say BSR even when cheap were correct engineering. I remember one of their cheap decks ( £6 ex works inc PU to a manufacturer ) giving a very nice rendition of Simon and Garfunkel albeit it with some rumble on a music centre of a neighbour. She said " you will not be able to listen to this ". Not true, although true of many CD players.
I haven't had to tackle French for 20 years so I might have overlooked a nuance or two.
Looking again I didn't read the double negatives and I have said it gave insights when he said the opposite. Oddly a properly sorted out BSR will give insights. It can even give ultra high end turntables a lesson in pace. The problem is perhaps only a handful of people would start to know how to get this to happen. The plinths don't help and often the decks are very poorly looked after. The basic deck is OK as is the arm if not asked to do too much. One problem is the Shure is rather too good for some preamps if a M44-7. It needs > 68 K loading and the ability to be happy with 10 mV. If a bespoke pre amp built it is an excellent PU which might not be equaled by more expensive Shure's. I put it in the Decca London class. I have used them in SME 5 and can say you would be astonished ( for 78's and then tried with N44-7 on LP ). If the BSR arm is adjusted carefully it isn't a disgrace. This exact version I don't know. It looks a little bit of a budget design. Below MP60 perhaps?
My other half is a Birmingham girl so very close to my heart. She went to school at Small Heath opposite the BSA factory as in BSA Gold Star. Most of my young life was on a BSA with my dad ( C15 , Bantum, A10, A65 ). There were no speed limits then and the deal was " don't tell your mum ". Being a traitor I bought a Triumph Tiger 750. I learned in latter life it was the last genuine Triumph ever made. Sadly the man who sold it didn't say. He almost certainly knew. He only sold it to me because he knew my dad. Even aged four I was fixing the BSA with dad. No joke, I would do the cleaning of the carb etc, fuel jets was my thing. We fixed radios also. Dad isn't a talker so that how he was a dad. At 84 he said stuff the other day he should have said 50 years ago. He got there in the end.
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Nigel,
I enjoyed the story of you and your dad. There have been similar stories here and on a couple of other audio forums, but one that includes a Triumph AND a BSA has to be in a class of its own.
I enjoyed the story of you and your dad. There have been similar stories here and on a couple of other audio forums, but one that includes a Triumph AND a BSA has to be in a class of its own.
Thanks Doug.
My fascination with BSR is I nearly had a chance to run part of the company. If I was me now with me then energy maybe I could have. Some people would never see what I see. BSR were able to do anything. They chose not to. They should have had a turntable to rival the Garrard 301/401. What people don't know is that 301 and 401 lost money. They didn't really because the people needed work in the summer months that were often very slow for sales. If 301 and 401 were the only products they would have cost far more. The 7 months to age the platters probably started like that.
The BSA is important in this story and not just Birmingham. When only four my dad didn't realize I was a very small kid ( dad was a radar engineer and instructor, so at age four I knew a bit about them, it turns out most of what he told me he had signed the official secrets act for ). It was done right or not at all when dad. He would say you will never be an engineer. Well, history is different. Mechanical engineering I never took a qualification in. I have just remembered myself and a friend used to do the homework for the mechanical engineers at college. Mostly the maths. It meant we learnt also. We were accepted in that section by the teachers as we went there at lunch times. The Land Rover was the thing always being pulled to pieces to study. Good choice.
Here is a BSR I wish I had.
BSR 810 Manual - 2-Speed Transcription Series Turntable - Vinyl Engine
My fascination with BSR is I nearly had a chance to run part of the company. If I was me now with me then energy maybe I could have. Some people would never see what I see. BSR were able to do anything. They chose not to. They should have had a turntable to rival the Garrard 301/401. What people don't know is that 301 and 401 lost money. They didn't really because the people needed work in the summer months that were often very slow for sales. If 301 and 401 were the only products they would have cost far more. The 7 months to age the platters probably started like that.
The BSA is important in this story and not just Birmingham. When only four my dad didn't realize I was a very small kid ( dad was a radar engineer and instructor, so at age four I knew a bit about them, it turns out most of what he told me he had signed the official secrets act for ). It was done right or not at all when dad. He would say you will never be an engineer. Well, history is different. Mechanical engineering I never took a qualification in. I have just remembered myself and a friend used to do the homework for the mechanical engineers at college. Mostly the maths. It meant we learnt also. We were accepted in that section by the teachers as we went there at lunch times. The Land Rover was the thing always being pulled to pieces to study. Good choice.
Here is a BSR I wish I had.
BSR 810 Manual - 2-Speed Transcription Series Turntable - Vinyl Engine
Here is one I guessed at but have never seen. Collaro 4TR 200
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=924.0
The motor is almost exactly like a Thorens TD124 except better where it matters. That is the bottom bearing housing. I dare say reality is different. Experience says engineers who do the obvious things right often do the whole job right. TD124 uses off the shelf bearings so that shouldn't be the limiting factor. These parts come from clock making so even when cheap need to be right. One would expect TD124 to have a top grade shaft finish ( 1 micron ) and be very true+round. Equally Collaro would know that and have similar suppliers.
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=924.0
The motor is almost exactly like a Thorens TD124 except better where it matters. That is the bottom bearing housing. I dare say reality is different. Experience says engineers who do the obvious things right often do the whole job right. TD124 uses off the shelf bearings so that shouldn't be the limiting factor. These parts come from clock making so even when cheap need to be right. One would expect TD124 to have a top grade shaft finish ( 1 micron ) and be very true+round. Equally Collaro would know that and have similar suppliers.
I evaluate rumble or noise with rather primitive method. With platter spinning I place solid object on turntable plinth and rest stylus on it. I Increase volume till I hear any noise. Don't know if this method is right. With my TT I get noise at 3 O'clock position. I usually listen at much lower volume.
Idlers : Elac Miracord 50H is much talked about. Liked Perpetumm Ebner 3060 too. Bogen also has a Lenco variant. Kenwood 350 is belt-idler drive. All would be interesting to measure and compare.
Regards.
Idlers : Elac Miracord 50H is much talked about. Liked Perpetumm Ebner 3060 too. Bogen also has a Lenco variant. Kenwood 350 is belt-idler drive. All would be interesting to measure and compare.
Regards.
I picked up a BIC 940 belt drive changer in 1979 at a close out sale. they were probably going out of business. I got a 1.5 g the Shure M97 Era IV at the same time. It is a way better turntable than the AR it replaced. I've run over 1000 LP's over it multiple times and it is still running 35 years later. The arm is lighter than the AR, and works great on ATCO high velocity 45's that made the AR + Audio Technica cartridge skip. The footsteps on my wood floor don't make it through the suspension like the thuds did on the AR turntable. I don't think the BIC940 would work well at 1 g but my records are not being damaged. And it will change records!
The 940 looked like the plastic turntable your sister ripped up all the Beatle records with, is probably why they went out of business so fast. Fake woodgrain PVC. They also made a black plastic budget model that looked worse - I picked up one at a yard sale two years ago.
The Technics and Panasonic turntables I've picked up at Goodwill resale shop look so much better than the BIC, lying there on the shelf broken.
Interesting how BSR took care of their workers in the off season. they would be acquired, managers and everybody else laid off these days, process sourced out to low pay serfs somewhere. I'm making bicycle fenders this week to avoid supporting the corporate vultures, serfs, and their resource grabbing overlords.
My father didn't talk much either, but he taught me to dig sewer laterals, mix concrete, wire a room, install roofing, change plugs on a V8, all useful tasks for a future physicist. He also got me a summer job in a machine shop, where I learned all sorts of useful things I wasn't allowed to actually do. I made the coffee, carried out the piles of trash in the corners, ran the wire drawing die rework machines.
The 940 looked like the plastic turntable your sister ripped up all the Beatle records with, is probably why they went out of business so fast. Fake woodgrain PVC. They also made a black plastic budget model that looked worse - I picked up one at a yard sale two years ago.
The Technics and Panasonic turntables I've picked up at Goodwill resale shop look so much better than the BIC, lying there on the shelf broken.
Interesting how BSR took care of their workers in the off season. they would be acquired, managers and everybody else laid off these days, process sourced out to low pay serfs somewhere. I'm making bicycle fenders this week to avoid supporting the corporate vultures, serfs, and their resource grabbing overlords.
My father didn't talk much either, but he taught me to dig sewer laterals, mix concrete, wire a room, install roofing, change plugs on a V8, all useful tasks for a future physicist. He also got me a summer job in a machine shop, where I learned all sorts of useful things I wasn't allowed to actually do. I made the coffee, carried out the piles of trash in the corners, ran the wire drawing die rework machines.
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Nigel,
Thanks for the BSR history. That 810 looks like it has a lot of ELAC dna in it.
Squiffything and I have modified very ordinary BSR s - with better plinths and better arms - with surprisingly good results. The basic table engineering and construction were well done, but the arm left a lot to be desired perhaps because of constraints forced on it in order to make the changer work. I couldn't get the old spindle thrust bearing quiet so I kludged in a newer bushing bearing. It might be a new thrust bearing, maybe ceramic hybrid, would have improved things. I think Squiffything stayed with the original.
During high school, I spent a summer working in an R&D machine shop run by four retired Navy chief petty officer machinists. One of the best summers I ever had. I learned a lot and, since the shop was very close to the beach, it was surfing at lunch time.
My father died twenty years ago, well before I got involved with DIY audio, but he was a tinkerer all his life and I like to think he would have appreciated some of the work I'm doing now.
Thanks for the BSR history. That 810 looks like it has a lot of ELAC dna in it.
Squiffything and I have modified very ordinary BSR s - with better plinths and better arms - with surprisingly good results. The basic table engineering and construction were well done, but the arm left a lot to be desired perhaps because of constraints forced on it in order to make the changer work. I couldn't get the old spindle thrust bearing quiet so I kludged in a newer bushing bearing. It might be a new thrust bearing, maybe ceramic hybrid, would have improved things. I think Squiffything stayed with the original.
During high school, I spent a summer working in an R&D machine shop run by four retired Navy chief petty officer machinists. One of the best summers I ever had. I learned a lot and, since the shop was very close to the beach, it was surfing at lunch time.
My father died twenty years ago, well before I got involved with DIY audio, but he was a tinkerer all his life and I like to think he would have appreciated some of the work I'm doing now.
My old boss was returning from a business trip and took a chance to call in on A R Sugden. This was about 16 years before he was my boss. There was a dull light still on like the security guy might have. It was Mr A R Sugden who was very happy to sell one of these in the link for I think for £14. About 1960. That boss was a head of dept at Smiths Industries who made speedometers. He was boss of that and Hypertac that still exists. Emmerich taught me mechanical engineering and I taught him electronics.
When I first bought a Linn LP12 my boss said the Craftsman was superior in every way. I have one at Loricraft. I should get it working. Also a Lenco GL88 when I have time.
My college was RAF Doug, I was a civilian student.
Sugden Connoisseur craftsman iii 1960s superdeck
When I first bought a Linn LP12 my boss said the Craftsman was superior in every way. I have one at Loricraft. I should get it working. Also a Lenco GL88 when I have time.
My college was RAF Doug, I was a civilian student.
Sugden Connoisseur craftsman iii 1960s superdeck
I do very similar tests. Sometimes they are very bad yet the turntable is OK. It is a mystery sometimes. What I detest is people assuming a piece of concrete/slate is inert. Mr Dolly of Harwell did. I was angry because he has access to test gear. I asked him to measure - 60 dB. He could measure his wife walking down the garden path! He could not measure Didcot power station nearby ( well done Didcot designers )! Mr Dolly said 50 kg would be inert in his original statement. My best guess was 2.5 tons. Mr Dolly's revised figure 50 tons. So if you have 50 tons of concrete just go ahead and do it.
When very young I was recording in Oxford Town Hall. The piano sounded as if under water. Phoned the BBC and was instantly told how to solve it. Even though using microphone stands the sound was transmitting up the stand from the building, building mass 1000's of tons I suspect. I put the microphones on strings in the same place and had a perfect result. If a hi fi fanatic I would have spent £1000's to find out that the building always wins. That phone call was the opening of my mind as clearly the turntable suffers the same.
Though I don't understand technical bits, in the past I have attempted to design plinths for metal chassis idler TTs. Example is here (#120). Metal chassis to metal layer will transmit and dissipate mechanical noise is what I believed. Also took care of floor and acoustic vibrations from speakers. Dont know how effective or counter productive that would be.
Regards.
Regards.
I'm lucking out this week. I bought a Shure KSM27 mike flat to 10 hz, and am recording myself playing organ this month. I made a shock mount out of industrial rubber belt with holes in it, and mounted it on a camera tripod. They have diverted heavy traffic down my street this week, lots of 40 ton diesel trucks driving by 50' from the music room, and I'm not picking them up. Just the hum of the power transformer in the used mixer I'm using, 15 feet away from the microphone. Though I can see my footsteps as I walk from the PC to the keyboard on the wood floor. I don't want to use the mike bass cut switch, the organ puts out down to 32 Hz.
Wish I lived near a retired Navy machinist now; I have to get on the internet to learning anything but Cats and Cards basketball tricks in this town.
Wish I lived near a retired Navy machinist now; I have to get on the internet to learning anything but Cats and Cards basketball tricks in this town.
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I heard a 1930's organ recording on BBC program The organist entertains ( worth trying BBC iPlayer if they have it ). I was astonished. It was slightly lacking at the extremes of frequency. Slightly being the word as I was fooled into thinking it was a modern recording with less than ideal microphone placement. I think the presenter is Nigel Ogden. I could be wrong. He also shows virtual organs. These are real organs sampled. Loved your final comment.
My best advice on plinths is believe in MDF. Try the bad stuff later. The RAF were no better in 1938. They thought the Mosquito fighter bomber a complete joke and it's designer also. The whole project funded by the company without help. The statistics say if all the pilots had flown Mosquitoes the death rate would have been much lower and strike rate higher. Even the payload was as good as most. It flew faster as it had almost no metal and no rivets. 20 MPH faster. Guess who went to a RAF college. We had a Vampire jet at college which was from the same designer. They even built the engine from scratch and it flew in 1945! My maths teacher built the Whittle engine in the science museum, he was a research engineer with Sir Frank. Chris Bartum never said. It was in the newspaper when he died.
My best advice on plinths is believe in MDF. Try the bad stuff later. The RAF were no better in 1938. They thought the Mosquito fighter bomber a complete joke and it's designer also. The whole project funded by the company without help. The statistics say if all the pilots had flown Mosquitoes the death rate would have been much lower and strike rate higher. Even the payload was as good as most. It flew faster as it had almost no metal and no rivets. 20 MPH faster. Guess who went to a RAF college. We had a Vampire jet at college which was from the same designer. They even built the engine from scratch and it flew in 1945! My maths teacher built the Whittle engine in the science museum, he was a research engineer with Sir Frank. Chris Bartum never said. It was in the newspaper when he died.
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Earlier I had a Pioneer PL-15D turntable. It had a bronze outer bearing with a side hole tightly closed with a screw. It took good effort to pull out spindle from bearing housing and it used to make pop sound coming out. I think oil film created vaccum. As mentioned in Thorens td-124 thread about air bearing design, new thought comes to my mind. If we fix strong repelling magnets on spindle bottom and thrust pad we can get rid off bearing ball. The space between magnets can be filled with oil so as it creates vaccum and vertical movement of platter (if lighter) can be avoided. If Belt drive one can use two motors on opposite side of each other so as it applies less pressure to the sides of the bearing due to tension in belt. Two motors can be synchronized to have less vibration etc. And will give more torque too I think.
Regards.
Regards.
I seem to remember the PL12 was a 4 pole hysteresis motor ( Trio/Kenwood KD1033 a clone)? PL12D killed the idler drives in the UK. It cost more or less the same. £40 at discount when a HT70 about £30. On reflection HT70 was better. The PL12D arm had the first budget super arm. It is said not so when production was raised. Adjustment only I am sure. A turntable I bought that was far better at £77 was the ERA mk6 and SME S2 non detachable. I was offered to buy the company a few years latter for £20 000 ( the price of a house then ). I bought by pure chance a car from Tony de Banks the one time importer in Wendover in 1996. He still had 6 in stock I could have had for nothing. I never went back .
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/era/mk6.shtml
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/era/mk6.shtml
Pioneer sounded nice. Didn't know arm was good. Thanks for sharing that. Chassis was metal. When listened to the chassis with stethoscope could hear most of the music content. Used to listen to Hollies when young. 'Long cool woman' has a loud drums at start and the glass panels in my home used to shake. So I think tracking was good. Never skipped a vinyl.
Regards
Regards
Magnefloat was a Japanese turntable manufacturer of the 1960s, possibly dating back to the 1950s. I think that they were the first to use magnetic levitation techniques. Issue 2 of the Japanese audio magazine "Stereo Sound" has a listing for the Magnefloat MFD202, and this is 1967 March.
Magnefloat was bought out by TEAC, probably in the latter half of 1967. This page is about the TEAC TN-80C, which was launched in 1968.
TEAC ƒA�[ƒ€ƒŒƒXƒvƒŒƒCƒ„�[TN-80C‚ÌŽd—l ƒeƒBƒAƒbƒN
A 4-pole hysteresis synchronous motor drove the platter through a polyurethane belt that was precision-ground on both sides. As the Magnefloat name implies, opposing magnets were used to reduce the 2.4kg thrust bearing load (die-cast aluminum platter) to one-half.
Naturally it is possible to do away with the ball bearing completely, but most engineers that I have talked to who have tried reduced thrust bearing load vs. complete levitation have ended up preferring some degree of bearing contact - even if only a kilogram. This is probably because a repulsion magnetic field is a spring, and will allow some vertical modulation of the platter to occur, which the cartridge will generate a signal in response to.
I have heard that TEAC's previous TN-60 (probably from 1964) did not have magnetic levitation, and suffered from some mechanical vibration from the fairly powerful motor that was used. This may be a reason why TEAC decided to acquire the Magnefloat company.
TEAC continued to use the magnefloat concept in the direct-drive era - the TN-400 is a DD turntable from 1973 that incorporates magnefloat principles (driven by a 20-pole 60-slot DC servo motor).
‚s‚m-‚S‚O‚O
hth, jonathan
Magnefloat was bought out by TEAC, probably in the latter half of 1967. This page is about the TEAC TN-80C, which was launched in 1968.
TEAC ƒA�[ƒ€ƒŒƒXƒvƒŒƒCƒ„�[TN-80C‚ÌŽd—l ƒeƒBƒAƒbƒN
A 4-pole hysteresis synchronous motor drove the platter through a polyurethane belt that was precision-ground on both sides. As the Magnefloat name implies, opposing magnets were used to reduce the 2.4kg thrust bearing load (die-cast aluminum platter) to one-half.
Naturally it is possible to do away with the ball bearing completely, but most engineers that I have talked to who have tried reduced thrust bearing load vs. complete levitation have ended up preferring some degree of bearing contact - even if only a kilogram. This is probably because a repulsion magnetic field is a spring, and will allow some vertical modulation of the platter to occur, which the cartridge will generate a signal in response to.
I have heard that TEAC's previous TN-60 (probably from 1964) did not have magnetic levitation, and suffered from some mechanical vibration from the fairly powerful motor that was used. This may be a reason why TEAC decided to acquire the Magnefloat company.
TEAC continued to use the magnefloat concept in the direct-drive era - the TN-400 is a DD turntable from 1973 that incorporates magnefloat principles (driven by a 20-pole 60-slot DC servo motor).
‚s‚m-‚S‚O‚O
hth, jonathan
Hitan. I used a screw driver with bone conduction. A stethoscope would have been great. My friend who services Garrard uses a contact microphone.
Thanks Jonathan. Rich treasure. I found slight contact in mag-lev bearings ideal. I think Verdier did. I guess half electromagnet would be good so that field strength can be varied. If the magnetic force is too high the platter becomes unstable.
Thanks Jonathan. Rich treasure. I found slight contact in mag-lev bearings ideal. I think Verdier did. I guess half electromagnet would be good so that field strength can be varied. If the magnetic force is too high the platter becomes unstable.
Actually, the company that TEAC acquired was called TEIC (Tokyo Electronic Instrument Co. Ltd., 東京電子機器 in Japanese), and Magnefloat was TEIC's turntable brand.
FWIW, TEAC was originally called TTO (Tokyo Television Onkyo, 東京テレビ音響 in Japanese). The name-change to TEAC occured in late 1962.
Another underrated but fascinating turntable design IMHO is the Sany😵tto TP-L1 from 1978 (also TP-L3, TP-L50 and various models sold under the Fisher brand** outside of Japan). This family of turntables had a direct-drive linear motor, comprised of a 120-pole magnetic rim integrated into the die-cast aluminum platter, and three plinth-mounted stator coils which were driven by a built-in 3-phase sine-wave power supply. IOW, the platter was the motor rotor, in a similar manner as the later (and far more expen$ive) Onkyo PX-100M.
http://knisi2001.web.fc2.com/tp-l1.html
http://www.hifido.co.jp/KW/G0301/J/0-10/C09-47794-36773-00/
Despite the pathetically flimsy chassis construction (particularly of the post-TP-L1 variants), the sound was surprisingly smooth and clean, and some DIY audiophiles in Japan re-plinthed these to very good effect.
http://sasha3.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2009-11-29
http://sasha3.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2009-12-04
http://sasha3.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2009-06-05
http://sasha3.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-05-27
http://sasha3.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-06-22
Brilliant fundamental design, hamstrung by myopic cost-cutting and excessive emphasis on auto-play features.
complex mechanical auto-play linkages married to eggshell chassis construction (TP-L50)
the platter is the 120-pole motor rotor (TP-L3)
three plinth-mounted stator coils are driven by a three-phase sine-wave supply (TP-L3)
hth, jonathan
**Fisher MT-6225, MT-6250, MT-6330, MT-6335, MT-6340, MT-6350, MT-6360, MT-6450, MT-9000, probably more.
FWIW, TEAC was originally called TTO (Tokyo Television Onkyo, 東京テレビ音響 in Japanese). The name-change to TEAC occured in late 1962.
Another underrated but fascinating turntable design IMHO is the Sany😵tto TP-L1 from 1978 (also TP-L3, TP-L50 and various models sold under the Fisher brand** outside of Japan). This family of turntables had a direct-drive linear motor, comprised of a 120-pole magnetic rim integrated into the die-cast aluminum platter, and three plinth-mounted stator coils which were driven by a built-in 3-phase sine-wave power supply. IOW, the platter was the motor rotor, in a similar manner as the later (and far more expen$ive) Onkyo PX-100M.
http://knisi2001.web.fc2.com/tp-l1.html
http://www.hifido.co.jp/KW/G0301/J/0-10/C09-47794-36773-00/
Despite the pathetically flimsy chassis construction (particularly of the post-TP-L1 variants), the sound was surprisingly smooth and clean, and some DIY audiophiles in Japan re-plinthed these to very good effect.
http://sasha3.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2009-11-29
http://sasha3.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2009-12-04
http://sasha3.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2009-06-05
http://sasha3.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-05-27
http://sasha3.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-06-22
Brilliant fundamental design, hamstrung by myopic cost-cutting and excessive emphasis on auto-play features.
complex mechanical auto-play linkages married to eggshell chassis construction (TP-L50)
the platter is the 120-pole motor rotor (TP-L3)
three plinth-mounted stator coils are driven by a three-phase sine-wave supply (TP-L3)
hth, jonathan
**Fisher MT-6225, MT-6250, MT-6330, MT-6335, MT-6340, MT-6350, MT-6360, MT-6450, MT-9000, probably more.
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