Guy,
Thanks for the heads-up on the Beseler 22in efl lens. I ordered one from Ludek(AAAequipment@aol.com), and it arrived today.
I have been planning and gathering parts for some time now, and this was just what I was looking for.
My Projector components:
Samsung 710T 17 ''
1280 x 1024 (selectable to 1280X720 for 15" widescreen)
Contrast ratio 600:1
Average response time 12 ms
IceCap 400MH 400w ballast (www.diyprojectorcompany.com)
OSRAM HQI-TS 400W Daylight – HM (www.exclusiv-online.com)
12.000 h
5200 K color temperature
Color index: 93
Glass reflector (cold mirror) (www.exclusiv-online.com)
50 mm Diameter
IR/UV glass filter (www.exclusiv-online.com)
Diameter 90 mm x 2 mm thick
Fresnel Lens 220mm fl (www.diyprojectorcompany.com)
Fresnel Lens 550mm fl (www.3dlens.com)
I picked up a couple of 128mm Dia. x 1000mm Fl coated Positive Meniscus lenses from Anchor Optical Surplus for $12.00 each. I had planned to use these spaced about 120mm apart as my projection doublet, but this lens sounded too good to pass up!
Hope to get everything setup and tested in the next week so I start designing the cabinet.
Lloyd
Thanks for the heads-up on the Beseler 22in efl lens. I ordered one from Ludek(AAAequipment@aol.com), and it arrived today.
I have been planning and gathering parts for some time now, and this was just what I was looking for.
My Projector components:
Samsung 710T 17 ''
1280 x 1024 (selectable to 1280X720 for 15" widescreen)
Contrast ratio 600:1
Average response time 12 ms
IceCap 400MH 400w ballast (www.diyprojectorcompany.com)
OSRAM HQI-TS 400W Daylight – HM (www.exclusiv-online.com)
12.000 h
5200 K color temperature
Color index: 93
Glass reflector (cold mirror) (www.exclusiv-online.com)
50 mm Diameter
IR/UV glass filter (www.exclusiv-online.com)
Diameter 90 mm x 2 mm thick
Fresnel Lens 220mm fl (www.diyprojectorcompany.com)
Fresnel Lens 550mm fl (www.3dlens.com)
I picked up a couple of 128mm Dia. x 1000mm Fl coated Positive Meniscus lenses from Anchor Optical Surplus for $12.00 each. I had planned to use these spaced about 120mm apart as my projection doublet, but this lens sounded too good to pass up!
Hope to get everything setup and tested in the next week so I start designing the cabinet.
Lloyd
22" EFL lens
It will be interesting to see just how well it works with a 17" LCD. If the corners seem too dim, I do have a suggestion for an experiment:
You could probably increase the FOV of this lens by remounting the lens elements in another tube (maybe a 4" ABS pipe coupling?), with the lens elements a bit closer together. That is what some people have done with 18" EFL triplets, and they claimed they got wider FOV with only a tiny loss of sharpness in the center of the image. I think you could try this without damaging the original tube or lenses, so you could put it back together afterward if it didn't work out.
Anyway, please post your results when you get it all together. From your parts list, it sounds like you will have a great projector.
Try it with the DIY doublet too. That would be another very interesting "data point".
It will be interesting to see just how well it works with a 17" LCD. If the corners seem too dim, I do have a suggestion for an experiment:
You could probably increase the FOV of this lens by remounting the lens elements in another tube (maybe a 4" ABS pipe coupling?), with the lens elements a bit closer together. That is what some people have done with 18" EFL triplets, and they claimed they got wider FOV with only a tiny loss of sharpness in the center of the image. I think you could try this without damaging the original tube or lenses, so you could put it back together afterward if it didn't work out.
Anyway, please post your results when you get it all together. From your parts list, it sounds like you will have a great projector.
Try it with the DIY doublet too. That would be another very interesting "data point".
Re: another 18" fl opaque projector lens
Just wanted to say thanks Guy for pointing a bunch of people at the auction I was bidding on (didn't even know this post existed)...
Oh well... can't win them all I guess
I actually found this post as I'm searching Google trying to find another Beseler for my 17" projector... since the first one got sniped away... 🙄
Guy Grotke said:
Just wanted to say thanks Guy for pointing a bunch of people at the auction I was bidding on (didn't even know this post existed)...
Oh well... can't win them all I guess
I actually found this post as I'm searching Google trying to find another Beseler for my 17" projector... since the first one got sniped away... 🙄
sniped
If it got sniped, then you just weren't willing to pay what it was worth!
Seriously though, anybody should be able to find an opaque projector lens, or maybe a whole projector for the lens. In this case, the winning bid was $71, which is right about the winning bid level I have seen for several of these lenses. (The 22" fl lenses that started this thread were $75.)
If sellers see a steady market for these lenses, then they will bother to list them. If they see them going for $12, then they will not list them. I think it's better to have the market exist!
If you really need one immediately, then I would try bidding about $85 in the last 30 seconds of the auction just to make sure I won it. If you have to get a bargain to feel good about it, then you can try for a low-ball bid. I have seen one go for $12!
If it got sniped, then you just weren't willing to pay what it was worth!
Seriously though, anybody should be able to find an opaque projector lens, or maybe a whole projector for the lens. In this case, the winning bid was $71, which is right about the winning bid level I have seen for several of these lenses. (The 22" fl lenses that started this thread were $75.)
If sellers see a steady market for these lenses, then they will bother to list them. If they see them going for $12, then they will not list them. I think it's better to have the market exist!
If you really need one immediately, then I would try bidding about $85 in the last 30 seconds of the auction just to make sure I won it. If you have to get a bargain to feel good about it, then you can try for a low-ball bid. I have seen one go for $12!
I´m a lucky guy , I won 2 ebay auctions months ago , 1 opaque projector that I asked seller to send me only the lens , and 1 american optical 18" efl lens. paid only about $35 for each one. the first one did a typo on description (besler). when I won the first I was a zero FB international ebay user !!!
does the front, middle, or back of the lens have to be the field fresnel FL away?
im trying to plan if a long throw modification is possible
also how good is the focus on an 18" FL beseler
im trying to plan if a long throw modification is possible
also how good is the focus on an 18" FL beseler
Hey Guy, What would happen if i used a 330mm frensel with the 18" EFL instead of the 550 that you were using?
And i got my 18" lens for free at a surplus auction. I asked the guy how much he wanted for it , he said he didn't want it so he gave me the whole projector!
And i got my 18" lens for free at a surplus auction. I asked the guy how much he wanted for it , he said he didn't want it so he gave me the whole projector!
I have an 18" opaque projection lens on a 17" projector. The focus is great until you hit the corners (on a 17" LCD). They start to become blurry right around the Start button (windows) and the same blur in the other corners.
With a smaller LCD (15" and smaller), I would suspect that the focus would be no problem. It's all about FOV. Search FOV (field of view) for some answers.
With a smaller LCD (15" and smaller), I would suspect that the focus would be no problem. It's all about FOV. Search FOV (field of view) for some answers.
you forgot a very important point as well; throw.
If you have a small throw, better the focus will be.
If you have a small throw, better the focus will be.
Thanx for your answers superdave, i had briefly tested my lens with 330 fresnel and transparency but was unsure if there were other factors i hadn't thought of. I will be sticking to 15" or smaller.
matching lens and field fresnel
It's not impossible to make a 330 mm fl field fresnel work with an 18" fl lens, but it is certainly not optimal. The rear principal plane of the projection lens will be at least 18" from the LCD, and that would be with an infinite throw distance. With a 12 foot throw distance, it will be more like 20.6" (522 mm).
The purpose of the field fresnel is to send all the light rays passing through the LCD to the center of the projection lens. (That gets the most light through the lens.) So you can see that a 550 mm fl fresnel about 30 mm before the LCD will do just that. This is exactly why I recommended the 3dlens owner should make a 550 mm fl fresnel.
If you try to use a 330 mm fl fresnel, you have to play with the lamp-arc-to-condensor-fresnel distance to force the light into a diverging cone. Then the field fresnel can focus the arc image at the projection lens distance. (But fresnels don't work very well in this mode, since they are really a series of prisms instead of lenses.) If you fail to do this, the 330 fresnel will focus the arc image about 200 mm before the projection lens. By the time the light gets to the lens, it will have spread out all over the place. You will get a VERY dark image, like you had no field fresnel at all.
So you are much better off using a field fresnel that matches your projection lens fl:
300 mm fl lens with 330 mm fl fresnel
457 mm fl lens with 550 mm fl fresnel
It's not impossible to make a 330 mm fl field fresnel work with an 18" fl lens, but it is certainly not optimal. The rear principal plane of the projection lens will be at least 18" from the LCD, and that would be with an infinite throw distance. With a 12 foot throw distance, it will be more like 20.6" (522 mm).
The purpose of the field fresnel is to send all the light rays passing through the LCD to the center of the projection lens. (That gets the most light through the lens.) So you can see that a 550 mm fl fresnel about 30 mm before the LCD will do just that. This is exactly why I recommended the 3dlens owner should make a 550 mm fl fresnel.
If you try to use a 330 mm fl fresnel, you have to play with the lamp-arc-to-condensor-fresnel distance to force the light into a diverging cone. Then the field fresnel can focus the arc image at the projection lens distance. (But fresnels don't work very well in this mode, since they are really a series of prisms instead of lenses.) If you fail to do this, the 330 fresnel will focus the arc image about 200 mm before the projection lens. By the time the light gets to the lens, it will have spread out all over the place. You will get a VERY dark image, like you had no field fresnel at all.
So you are much better off using a field fresnel that matches your projection lens fl:
300 mm fl lens with 330 mm fl fresnel
457 mm fl lens with 550 mm fl fresnel
My setup is this:
400W Ushio MH Bulb -> IR / UV Filter -> 220mm Fresnel -> 17" LCD -> 550mm fresnel -> FS Mirror -> 18" Opaque projection lens -> Screen
My throw is approx (haven't measured it yet) 95" and my screen size is about 78" diagonal.
Price has gone up for the 22"
I contacted the guy at aaa today, and now he's asking $100, before tax and shipping for the 22" lens, and that's without the projector (so no front surface mirror), which he said he doesn't have any more.
I'm going to try searching around first before bending over for the 33% price increase.
I think we've established that the 18" comes from the Vulyte 2-4's, but does anyone know the model that the 22" E.F. lens comes from?
For price/performance on a 500mm field fresnell, is there anything (besides the 18" version) that competes with this lens?
Lastly, I'd like to start organizing projector parts separately by complexity/capability, quality, and cost. Anyone think it would be useful to have a ranked list of components like this, or does it only sound good to me because that's what I need?
I contacted the guy at aaa today, and now he's asking $100, before tax and shipping for the 22" lens, and that's without the projector (so no front surface mirror), which he said he doesn't have any more.
I'm going to try searching around first before bending over for the 33% price increase.
I think we've established that the 18" comes from the Vulyte 2-4's, but does anyone know the model that the 22" E.F. lens comes from?
For price/performance on a 500mm field fresnell, is there anything (besides the 18" version) that competes with this lens?
Lastly, I'd like to start organizing projector parts separately by complexity/capability, quality, and cost. Anyone think it would be useful to have a ranked list of components like this, or does it only sound good to me because that's what I need?
Re: Price has gone up for the 22"
100 dollars is a good deal for a 22 inch focal length lens. You don't see that focal length very often. The reason for the price increase is he knows there is a demand for the lens. That's only smart business in my opinion. Guys test show that this lens works excellent with a 15 inch LCD. The only other option I'm aware of is the Lumenlab pro lens which is double the price. Whether or not these 22 inch lenses work with a 17 inch LCD remains to be seen. I just received my lens from Ludek and will be testing it with a 17 inch LCD shortly. I should point out that these 22 inch lenses being sold by Ludek are not all Beseler lenses. The one I recieved is an American Optical Co. lens. Both lenses have a 22 inch focal length, are 4 and 5/8 ths inches in diameter, and the Beseler is 6 inches long and the American Optical is 7 inches long. As far as organizing projector parts, the "long throw" aspect of the diy projector is to new at this time. 3dlens just came out with the 550mm fresnel a couple of months ago, there was supposed to be a fix in the works for the DIYPC 135mm lens that hasn't happened yet, and the new 500mm Pro triplet lens and 650mm fresnel from Lumenlab haven't been released yet. I do know the Lumenlab lenses have been tested independently and work perfectly with a 17 inch LCD. If you are building a 15inch LCD projector, you have options. If you are building a 17 inch LCD projector and want guaranteed results, Lumenlab is the only option at this time. The Lumenlab lenses are supposed to be released next month.
eatcaramels said:
100 dollars is a good deal for a 22 inch focal length lens. You don't see that focal length very often. The reason for the price increase is he knows there is a demand for the lens. That's only smart business in my opinion. Guys test show that this lens works excellent with a 15 inch LCD. The only other option I'm aware of is the Lumenlab pro lens which is double the price. Whether or not these 22 inch lenses work with a 17 inch LCD remains to be seen. I just received my lens from Ludek and will be testing it with a 17 inch LCD shortly. I should point out that these 22 inch lenses being sold by Ludek are not all Beseler lenses. The one I recieved is an American Optical Co. lens. Both lenses have a 22 inch focal length, are 4 and 5/8 ths inches in diameter, and the Beseler is 6 inches long and the American Optical is 7 inches long. As far as organizing projector parts, the "long throw" aspect of the diy projector is to new at this time. 3dlens just came out with the 550mm fresnel a couple of months ago, there was supposed to be a fix in the works for the DIYPC 135mm lens that hasn't happened yet, and the new 500mm Pro triplet lens and 650mm fresnel from Lumenlab haven't been released yet. I do know the Lumenlab lenses have been tested independently and work perfectly with a 17 inch LCD. If you are building a 15inch LCD projector, you have options. If you are building a 17 inch LCD projector and want guaranteed results, Lumenlab is the only option at this time. The Lumenlab lenses are supposed to be released next month.
I was the OP for this thread. I mentioned that it the 22" lens wasn't available on the Mark II, III, or IV. I should have explicitly stated that I think it's the original Beseler Opaque Vulyte model that has the 22" lens. I first came across this lens on ebay last spring when I first started reading about DIY PJ's and since then I've only seen 22" lenses with this model.
I'm planning on trying this lens with a 17" WS screen like the Westinghouse, but haven't purchased either yet because I keep spending my money on other stuff.
Quinn said:
Sorry for the delay. I am using the 18" Beseler. If you want to hear my opinion on this lens and a 17" screen look here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69975
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