What is more important, crytal module or popwer supply
Most people who tweak seem to spend large sums of money replacing clocks with £200 clock modules and power supplies. Often, the original clock modules seem top be high quality - the one in the Sony SCD1/777 actually measures about 3ppm. They all seem to be fed from 7805 type of regulators.
I decided to put in new clock power supplies in two CS 8420 SRCs, one a commercial unit that sounded rather stoddgy and one I made myself that sounded ok but not outstanding.
Presto, much better dynamics, bass timing and treble too.
Which is more important, the clock module or the PS? I installed TL431 based series pass regulators with very good filtering and excellent regulation. Cost me about £5 each and an hour or so to make.
Most people who tweak seem to spend large sums of money replacing clocks with £200 clock modules and power supplies. Often, the original clock modules seem top be high quality - the one in the Sony SCD1/777 actually measures about 3ppm. They all seem to be fed from 7805 type of regulators.
I decided to put in new clock power supplies in two CS 8420 SRCs, one a commercial unit that sounded rather stoddgy and one I made myself that sounded ok but not outstanding.
Presto, much better dynamics, bass timing and treble too.
Which is more important, the clock module or the PS? I installed TL431 based series pass regulators with very good filtering and excellent regulation. Cost me about £5 each and an hour or so to make.
Clock
Hi, The gold coloured SMD clock module in the Sony SCD-1 is a big joke.
The LCaudioclock is much better but lacking bass...
Jitter specs tell you nothing about the sound...
I estimate powersupply is 20% responsible for the sound of the clock, roughly...
Hi, The gold coloured SMD clock module in the Sony SCD-1 is a big joke.
The LCaudioclock is much better but lacking bass...
Jitter specs tell you nothing about the sound...
I estimate powersupply is 20% responsible for the sound of the clock, roughly...
SMD oscillator in Sony SCD-1
Hi, Because it is responsible for the VERY disapointing sound of this extremely expensive piece of equipment.
Hi, Because it is responsible for the VERY disapointing sound of this extremely expensive piece of equipment.
Re: SMD oscillator in Sony SCD-1
THIS IS YOUR OPINION ONLY; I HAVE IT AND IT SOUND FINE . MANY OTHERS AGREE.
-----------------------------Elso Kwak said:Hi, Because it is responsible for the VERY disapointing sound of this extremely expensive piece of equipment.
THIS IS YOUR OPINION ONLY; I HAVE IT AND IT SOUND FINE . MANY OTHERS AGREE.
----------------------------jean-paul said:
How am I shouting? I made a post on technical opinion, not a one sentence condemnation of a particular unit or clock crystal!
This is shouting. It is hard to accept oneothers opinion about a piece of equipment you really like but such is life. Better move on and enjoy the Sony. It's all a matter of taste and arguing about taste is useless and gives stress to both.
Don't know the SCD1 myself but I own a Sony ES model as well ( but not as expensive as SCD1 ) and to be honest: I prefer my old Philips/Marantz cdplayers. Till now I never heard a Sony that is better than old multibit cdplayers ( that are heavily modified I have to add ! ) or multibit DAC's.
Their Pulse DAC's are not that musical and because of the high clockfrequency of 45 MHz they are more sensitive to jitter. Placing a low jitter clock helps but it is very difficult to shield the stray 45 MHz that wanders around in the cdplayer. But again this is an opinion no one has to agree with. Don't know about the 3 ppm clock in SCD1, technically spoken it should be fine and replacing it seems not beneficial. Making a better PS than 7805 obviously is. Building discrete is a plus and I learnt the hard way that a separate transformer/regulator makes the biggest difference. As a side effect you won't have ground problems when you use a separate transformer.
BTW Is it possible to correct the title of this thread ? When I as non english speaker can see the errors the native english speakers certainly will. Small effort.
Sony SCD-1 Clock Module
fmak,
If you use only CAPITALS in your post this is interpreted as shouting.
I do not own the Sony. A friend of mine does. I was disappointed in SCAD as this is a top of the line machine.
I finally managed to construct a working 45 MHz clock and then you have incredible definition and depth in the soundfield and BASS in SACD mode.😉
Of course this my own subjective opinion/experience.
😉 😉
fmak,
If you use only CAPITALS in your post this is interpreted as shouting.
I do not own the Sony. A friend of mine does. I was disappointed in SCAD as this is a top of the line machine.
I finally managed to construct a working 45 MHz clock and then you have incredible definition and depth in the soundfield and BASS in SACD mode.😉
Of course this my own subjective opinion/experience.
😉 😉
What is more important,crystal or power suppy
Hi fmak,
jwk and elso Kwat have right for seversl
reason, you can put a better crystal in your Sony and you inprove the sound but
if you have a better power supply is the
ideal thing.
For this reason when you change the crystal you improve precision in the frecuency and less jitter, but if the power
supply is dirty the power supply introduce
noise in the square wave and it add jitter
and more types distorsions, the dirty power also infec at the another components in diferents ways and the end it is in your analog signal.
The power supply of the crystal has to be separete of the main power for the reason that explain at you.
I´m agree with Elso in relation the crystal
is into Sony and comment what type of
regulator 7805 is into the Sony becouse for the normal iit are bad and
the 7805 is not the better for theses
aplications.
For example I bougth a Crystal of 2ppm in the Spain and the cost was
abaut 100$ and I have another with
less of 1ppm that is to more expensive
For this reason I´m agree with Elso
and I don´t belive tha quality of the
Sony put in your CD.
Jesús Puerto
Hi fmak,
jwk and elso Kwat have right for seversl
reason, you can put a better crystal in your Sony and you inprove the sound but
if you have a better power supply is the
ideal thing.
For this reason when you change the crystal you improve precision in the frecuency and less jitter, but if the power
supply is dirty the power supply introduce
noise in the square wave and it add jitter
and more types distorsions, the dirty power also infec at the another components in diferents ways and the end it is in your analog signal.
The power supply of the crystal has to be separete of the main power for the reason that explain at you.
I´m agree with Elso in relation the crystal
is into Sony and comment what type of
regulator 7805 is into the Sony becouse for the normal iit are bad and
the 7805 is not the better for theses
aplications.
For example I bougth a Crystal of 2ppm in the Spain and the cost was
abaut 100$ and I have another with
less of 1ppm that is to more expensive
For this reason I´m agree with Elso
and I don´t belive tha quality of the
Sony put in your CD.
Jesús Puerto
Capitals creep in by accident. If this is regarded as souting, then I accept. Equally the value in these discussions is a degree of objectivity.
My premise was that a lot of money is spent and charged for on clock replacements and I was seeking the facts on the more significant factors.
Jean Paul - please suggest another title, I didn't find the original easy either.
My premise was that a lot of money is spent and charged for on clock replacements and I was seeking the facts on the more significant factors.
Jean Paul - please suggest another title, I didn't find the original easy either.
Hi fmak, I fully understand what you mean and I agree but IMO shouting is not the means to withstand it. But as I see now you didn't see the capitals as shouting. Never mind.
Clock replacements don't have to be expensive. Some members on this forum have interesting replacements that don't break the bank. Elso Kwak and Guido Tent are such members.
I really can't comment on the SCD1 clock but I can on the Tent clock module which is fine and reasonably priced. Changing the standard crystal for these modules is rewarding. I have a Kwak clock in parts as well but till now haven't had the opportunity to test it. Heard positive comment about it on this forum.
Yeah Elso, I should have tested it by now
But whatever clock you build or change/replace, they all benefit from a good power supply. Even the original ones that most of the time are connected to 74HCU04 benefit from a clean supply of the 74HCU04. Damping and shielding makes a difference too. Certainly with 45 MHz modules/ crystals. Good for improving your metal working skills 🙂 I prefer to use OSCON at these spots for decoupling as they are better in the RF regions than most standard electrolytics, but I have to say that modern electrolytics are not as bad in this aspect as they once were. Please use ferrite beads for RF damping in the PS lines.
BTW I was only suggesting to change "crytal" and "popwer" but:
"Influence of PS on clock modules" maybe is a good title.
Clock Design
Fmak,
Emperically I found a FET based oscillator is better than a bipolar transistor one and a high speed comparator works better for squaring up than a inverter (74HC(U)04). And I found the Colpitts oscillator better sounding than the Butler or Pierce type variant.
As the LCaudio uses a very high speed bipolar transistor (BFR92A) in a Colpitts oscillator and a NC7SZU04 (Fairchild Tiny Logic ultra high speed unbuffered inverter) for squaring, the difference in designs is obvious...
I have no idea what design is used by KDS. The website does not mention any jitter spec.
http://www.kdsj.co.jp/english.html
😎
Fmak,
Emperically I found a FET based oscillator is better than a bipolar transistor one and a high speed comparator works better for squaring up than a inverter (74HC(U)04). And I found the Colpitts oscillator better sounding than the Butler or Pierce type variant.
As the LCaudio uses a very high speed bipolar transistor (BFR92A) in a Colpitts oscillator and a NC7SZU04 (Fairchild Tiny Logic ultra high speed unbuffered inverter) for squaring, the difference in designs is obvious...
I have no idea what design is used by KDS. The website does not mention any jitter spec.
http://www.kdsj.co.jp/english.html
😎
Why mentioning KDS ?
BTW There are other manufacturers that produce clock modules and do mention jitter specs.
Kds
http://www.audiocominternational.com/modifications/instructions.asp?Fitting_ID=37
So I assumed it is made by KDS especially as KDS is a Japanese company.
Yes I know there are numerous clock manufacturers on the net.
See f.a. this fine list:
http://www.sherlab.com/electronics/quartz.htm
But it is very difficult to get a crystal-oscillator-module in a for the manufacturer non-standard frequency like the for CD very common frequencies 11.2896 or 16.9344 MHz.
😎
The miniscule small SMD module used in the Sony SCD-1 is marked KDS (full marking 2A45.158 KDS 9K)jean-paul said:
http://www.audiocominternational.com/modifications/instructions.asp?Fitting_ID=37
So I assumed it is made by KDS especially as KDS is a Japanese company.
Yes I know there are numerous clock manufacturers on the net.
See f.a. this fine list:
http://www.sherlab.com/electronics/quartz.htm
But it is very difficult to get a crystal-oscillator-module in a for the manufacturer non-standard frequency like the for CD very common frequencies 11.2896 or 16.9344 MHz.
😎
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