Yesterday I was talking with a group of speaker designers and audio engineers. They had worked in companies like Allison, Acoustics research and had designed speakers like IC-20 from Allison. I had asked the same question to them. According to them the improvements have not been much in the spund quality. Speaker being a mechanical device, they were pretty mature 30 years back. However introduction of wave guide has improved dispersion. Characteristics of tweeters. In addition there have been improvements in testing and reliability. The cost has also come down somewhat although there is more hype now than 30 years back and most of the hype is not based on speaker quality improvements but edorsement from paid review magazines like Stereophile, what HiFi and others. In these reviews, reviewer almost provide measurement that show significant improvement over other speakers but says that these speakers were the best he had ever heard and gives them 5 stars.
I would like to hear what you guys abd gals think. Do you hear much quality improvements from PSB, KEF, PARADIGM, B&W and others.
I would like to hear what you guys abd gals think. Do you hear much quality improvements from PSB, KEF, PARADIGM, B&W and others.
Given that this is a DIY forum, wherein most frequent traffic will be by builders, and specifically this subset devoted mostly to "single" driver based systems, I think you'd find room for discussion as to whether driver design and construction, computer based modeling and measurement technologies have not improved in the 30 - 40 yrs that some of us have been involved in the hobby, and in many cases, retail sales.
So, in other words, commercial products have improved in some respects, but most of us here are of the mind that better "bang for the buck" can be achieved by rolling our own.
well, of course, wiser folks might opine that many of us are really of only half a mind, and with each post do little to dispel that notion 😉
So, in other words, commercial products have improved in some respects, but most of us here are of the mind that better "bang for the buck" can be achieved by rolling our own.
well, of course, wiser folks might opine that many of us are really of only half a mind, and with each post do little to dispel that notion 😉
It depends on what you mean by improvements.
There are improvements that make the speaker louder or have a wider frequency response.
On the other hand improvements for the manufacturer means making it cheaper with lesser materials or thinner wire in the voice coil.
I built my own speaker cabinets with Fane drivers in the 1980's and they sounded great.
I have recently built similar speaker cabinets with Fane sovereign series and the frequency response is better but they don't sound loads better than my 1980 speakers.
There are improvements that make the speaker louder or have a wider frequency response.
On the other hand improvements for the manufacturer means making it cheaper with lesser materials or thinner wire in the voice coil.
I built my own speaker cabinets with Fane drivers in the 1980's and they sounded great.
I have recently built similar speaker cabinets with Fane sovereign series and the frequency response is better but they don't sound loads better than my 1980 speakers.
In 30 years there has been greater availability of computer digital DSP, measurement and testing, as well as much lower prices to everyone. This allows anyone, from the manufacturer to the DIY guy to model or shape with tools unavailable or way expensive in 1984. E.g. a MIniDSP? No way. Today you can buy it for $120.
Good point. Cheap test gear has really been a major advance of the last decades. I got into diy about 20 years ago, and even then a TEF analyzer or whatever was out of reach of the average geek. Back then most folks used ratshack SPL meters and log paper!
Which reminds me, isn't it cool that Linkwitz still uses log paper? 😀
Actually, driver physical requirements are about the same as 30 years ago. A cone, coil ,magnet, spider, and frame. The physics require these. The only differences are in the cone materials, coil materials, and winding style, and magnet types, and adhesives employed. Most cast or stamped frames are the same and if you look back at some old catalogs, speakers are generally about the same or even cheaper in cost. Paper is still the dominate cone material, as it works well and is low in cost. We all know no two drivers sound the same and all our building efforts are ruled by the subjectivity of the listener.
In the early 70's, I had a cottage loud speaker manufacturing business that produced several hundred pairs that were sold in stereo stores (remember hi-fi shops? I miss them.) as house brands. I recently gave my son my final set that I had in the basement for decades. As far as we can tell, they still sound about as good as most of the higher end speakers that he comes across. And I see that Eminence and CTS still produce the same woofers and tweeters.
I also still have a set of AR4's from 1967 that are easily the equal of most of what I have heard recently.
The big difference between then and now is the size of loudspeakers. The advent of sub-woofers has allowed deep base (at the expense of low frequency distortion) to be produced by smaller sized speakers. I produced mostly 12 and 15 inch 3-ways and can now get frequencies as low with a little single 8 inch sub-woofer. However, even in 1967, 12 inch woofers could produce 50 cycle sounds and that is still about the low end of high fidelity music today. So, no actual improvement in sound, but a 100 pound reduction in weight.
The beneficiary of the sub-woofer era has been home theater. Explosions and 20 cycle thuds are now dirt cheap and visually almost non-existent.
And yes, the stereo magazines produced a lot of hype in 1970 and it has grown exponentially ever since.
Really loved your analysis. Did you mean that sub of today produce low frequencies but have a lot more distortion than what speakers did 30 years back.
If yes. Why is that. Is that because they had to reduce the size of the driver cone.
If yes. Why is that. Is that because they had to reduce the size of the driver cone.
Today's ear bud and iPad generation are don't seem to care about audio quality-just audio portability. The plethora of wireless speakers, with two channel drivers spaced 8 inches apart are what the market in demanding today. Add to that highly compressed audio recordings with the same dynamic range across the spectrum, and we now have an entire generation missing the experience of high quality, full range, two channel sound.
During the 70s to 80s the efficiency went down a lot in attempts to extend the LF response.
A bit of that has come back up during the last 2 to 3 decades, but the remainder of the LF SPL is being bought by using low impedance bass/mid drivers and/or throwing cheap power at the Voice Coils.
In that efficiency respect, I consider that most affordable speakers have gone down hill.
A bit of that has come back up during the last 2 to 3 decades, but the remainder of the LF SPL is being bought by using low impedance bass/mid drivers and/or throwing cheap power at the Voice Coils.
In that efficiency respect, I consider that most affordable speakers have gone down hill.
I've been at least an (adult) listener to audio since early 1980s. May I also add the fact (?) that not until about the 1990s did most music (I don't "do" home theater) had very little in the lowest octave? Even today, I doubt there is a headphone (earbud) that can reach that low -- not at the mass market price point anyway. Furthermore, with subwoofers, it's my understanding that the ear tolerates and generally can't detect distortion in the lowest frequencies. That works in favor of cheap, sloppy designs 
Have we mentioned one great advance (besides digital)? How about dirt-cheap amplification? Yes, I know that Behringer iNuke or brand-x Class T amps from Hong Kong are to everyone's taste, but substantially cheaper than similar power ratings a few decades back.
Have we mentioned one great advance (besides digital)? How about dirt-cheap amplification? Yes, I know that Behringer iNuke or brand-x Class T amps from Hong Kong are to everyone's taste, but substantially cheaper than similar power ratings a few decades back.
Small speaker cones have to travel much farther than large speaker cones to move the same amount of air. Speaker distortion comes partially from the travel of the the voice coil windings passing through the magnet assembly. When the coil extrudes too far, the coil movement is no longer lineal and distortion follows. One solution is longer coils, but that means that some of the electromotive force is wasted and that is part of the cause of low efficiency of subs. Low efficiency leads to bigger amps and that means heavier voice coil windings and heavier cones and stronger surrounds and heavier frames and more electromotive feedback into the amp and we end up with low notes and high distortion.
I built a set of Dec Horns. Because they are corner horns they can get by with 6 inch extremely light, highly loaded, efficient speakers that do not seem to move.
The results is wonderfully clean bass way down to 50 cycles and the compromise is corners filled with cabinets that weight 200 pounds.
iem seal well - triple silicone flange iem easily pressurize the ear canal and go low, some circumaural headphones do fine down low too - the experience is different from room shaking bass
I use 2 pairs of speakers on a regular basis. one pair is 22 years old the other 24. I still think of them as modern compared to the 1964 vintage Radford Amp I own. I stopped listening to new designs about 15 years ago as I didn't have the budget and stopped going to hifi shows as fed up of running screaming from rooms that should have sounded great but didn't.
So IMO the 80s was where things changed and have pretty much stabilised since then. What is different is budget (people will spend more as hi-end has become bling) and production methods. Look at speakers like the infinity prelude P-FR (the last newish speaker I was tempted by). 20 years old, but 25 years ago you would have had a hard time making those for the money.
Bar the Gedlee speakers, which really intrigue me there is nothing around now new I would give second thought to. Probably means I have become and old fogey already.
So IMO the 80s was where things changed and have pretty much stabilised since then. What is different is budget (people will spend more as hi-end has become bling) and production methods. Look at speakers like the infinity prelude P-FR (the last newish speaker I was tempted by). 20 years old, but 25 years ago you would have had a hard time making those for the money.
Bar the Gedlee speakers, which really intrigue me there is nothing around now new I would give second thought to. Probably means I have become and old fogey already.
Isn't a whole lot different, other than accessability and higher (potential) sonics, than the walkman followed by the discman.
I do concur that many modern recordings suffer from excessive amounts of compresion, but one can still get exempary recordings
dave
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