I was......Loving these speakers until the drivers started failing. I have listened to new JBL monitors and klipsch r7iii that cost over 10k AUD. Came home and the IMF's were better in every way. Wow. the xo has been redone but the b139 has gone and now the hp1300 is crackling and spitting. I'd love to keep them and upgrade with all falcon drivers but am not sure if I will gain anymore headroom . I think the falcon b1399 can handle higher spls but not sure about the tweeters . I know they are not party speakers but they should be able to rock up to 100db without failure. Goddamn they sound good but reliability is the line. Has anyone done the falcon kit upgrade or should I search for a JBL or klipsch that sounds like an imf but handles higher spl? Under 10k AUD?
Thanks for any insights or guidance going ahead.
Thanks for any insights or guidance going ahead.
I had Stridbeck TL-6 loudspeakers that were very similar to the IMF (used a Audax mid but otherwise the same drivers)
I would go for Falcon but with a modern tweeter in a 3 way system. The only reason for using the super tweeter was that the tweeters 50 year ago. As I recall the tweeter has no low pass so using a modern 1" dome and scrapping the super tweeter is the way IMHO.
Fantastic midrange very deep and clean bass but not the slam of bigger drivers
I would go for Falcon but with a modern tweeter in a 3 way system. The only reason for using the super tweeter was that the tweeters 50 year ago. As I recall the tweeter has no low pass so using a modern 1" dome and scrapping the super tweeter is the way IMHO.
Fantastic midrange very deep and clean bass but not the slam of bigger drivers
Falcon or used are your choices to replace the B139.
I have always thot if i scored another pair of TLS80, i’d swap out the B110/HF1300/STC4001 with a good 3 or 4” FR to make a WAW and biamp.
dave
I have always thot if i scored another pair of TLS80, i’d swap out the B110/HF1300/STC4001 with a good 3 or 4” FR to make a WAW and biamp.
dave
Probably not, or not very much, unless the original units were already badly worn out. The Falcon drivers are basically new-production KEF / Celestion units, to the original design & spec.
They weren't designed to do that, so 'should' is a bit wide of the mark, unfortunately.
The Falcon data is incomplete & slightly inconsisent, but since they claim (and I believe it, given that Malcolm Jones was behind them) they are basically recreations of the original he designed back in the '70s, & fudging that with information from original data sheets, then in a TLS80 you're probably going to be hitting the rated Xmax with about 3w signal input & about 93dB @ 1m. IIRC the B139, whatever its nominal power-rating didn't thank you for pushing it especially hard, so for all its other merits as a classic of its particular type, I suspect 100dB output, especially beyond 1m (remember, with a monopole SPL drops -6dB per doubling of distance, so at 2m you need 4x the input power & excursion for a given SPL) is going to be beyond its powers in this sort of load. Dropping it into a full sized horn should do it, but at the price of being around 16x the size of this IMF enclosure. 😉
I talked to a guy working in a hifistore, one evening they played really loud on a set of TDL speakers for an extended period of time. He then notet that the front of the bass driver chassi was warm to the touch...
At least the Oval TDL drivers had both inproved power handling and x-max compared to the old KEFs while keeping very similar T/S parameters. I would think that Falcon did a similar thing.
At least the Oval TDL drivers had both inproved power handling and x-max compared to the old KEFs while keeping very similar T/S parameters. I would think that Falcon did a similar thing.
You'd hope so, but hard to say: they were designed by Malcolm Jones, who designed the original units, & allegedly are recreations of those. Falcon are cagy on (useful) details though, so I'd be inclined to play it safe & assume 'original equivalence' until we know for certain otherwise.
Thankyou all! Very useful and thought provoking info.
So I either save and buy something else that is still inferior to the Tls80s or learn to restrain myself to under 90db haha.
I think I can do the latter.... That's the problem when the sound is that good, the volume keeps going up a few clicks over the hours .
Actually I think I damaged them on "fat freddys drop" ( dub album) at moderate spl ...lots of lows rather than hammering "in utero" at high spls. The room sound from in utero is astounding on these Tls80s, the space and dynamics of the vocals is the best I have heard along with the seperate details of the drums and guitars. Absolutely mind blowing and blood curdling. Nothing has blown but it seems the vibration from high spls shook loose the spider wire on the b139 and shook something else loose causing a crackle through the drivers .
I'm taking them to a local TL wizard to hear he's thoughts regarding going NOS drivers ,upgraded falcons or something else to give them more resilience.
I know they are not party speakers but feel they are capable of maintaining spls between 90 and 100 at 1m. .
These are the first thrashing they probably have ever had so its natural some material has quit.
At this stage the mids need surrounds done and I'll replace both b139s ( although only one has failed due to loose spider wire. )
Wish there were other options that can compete with the Tls80s at higher spls for 1.5k AUD . As mentioned tried some modern klipsch r7iii and forte iv, JBL studios that retail around 10k AUD and I still preferred that smoother less squaky mids on the IMFs, better imaging and lower solid performing bass from the Tls80s
but so far I have not found anything that comes close for under 10k.
I'm sure other speakers will do the job but being used to the imf sound Its hard for anything else to dethrone the multitude of reproductive elements they get right. Or Wright . Thankyou Sir John for ruining expensive modern speakers for me and saving me some coin .
Keep you guys informed.
So I either save and buy something else that is still inferior to the Tls80s or learn to restrain myself to under 90db haha.
I think I can do the latter.... That's the problem when the sound is that good, the volume keeps going up a few clicks over the hours .
Actually I think I damaged them on "fat freddys drop" ( dub album) at moderate spl ...lots of lows rather than hammering "in utero" at high spls. The room sound from in utero is astounding on these Tls80s, the space and dynamics of the vocals is the best I have heard along with the seperate details of the drums and guitars. Absolutely mind blowing and blood curdling. Nothing has blown but it seems the vibration from high spls shook loose the spider wire on the b139 and shook something else loose causing a crackle through the drivers .
I'm taking them to a local TL wizard to hear he's thoughts regarding going NOS drivers ,upgraded falcons or something else to give them more resilience.
I know they are not party speakers but feel they are capable of maintaining spls between 90 and 100 at 1m. .
These are the first thrashing they probably have ever had so its natural some material has quit.
At this stage the mids need surrounds done and I'll replace both b139s ( although only one has failed due to loose spider wire. )
Wish there were other options that can compete with the Tls80s at higher spls for 1.5k AUD . As mentioned tried some modern klipsch r7iii and forte iv, JBL studios that retail around 10k AUD and I still preferred that smoother less squaky mids on the IMFs, better imaging and lower solid performing bass from the Tls80s
but so far I have not found anything that comes close for under 10k.
I'm sure other speakers will do the job but being used to the imf sound Its hard for anything else to dethrone the multitude of reproductive elements they get right. Or Wright . Thankyou Sir John for ruining expensive modern speakers for me and saving me some coin .
Keep you guys informed.
"The Falcon B139 chassis dimensions are identical to the original later version KEF SP1044 with an extra 25mm chassis depth to allow for greater power handling ( now 150W), helped by the provision of a bump stop bottom plate and vented pole."
So the new should be able to party louder than the old B139. But TLS or not it a 10" driver and they will not have the "slamability" of 15" drivers.
So the new should be able to party louder than the old B139. But TLS or not it a 10" driver and they will not have the "slamability" of 15" drivers.
Could you provide some good 15" options? Some options for sale ATM in Melbourne Australia are cerwin vega AL 1000, JBL 4312mk2 , 4132d L166, L100, Yamaha ns1000 and pioneer cs955 and klipsch heresey 3. All around 3 K aud
I emailed falcon about the b139 power rating .
Here is the confident response...
"The Falcon B139 will actually handle well over 200W RMS peak, so will give you substantially more headroom subject to the other parts of your TLS80 speakers being up to the job now. We’ve not accurately measured max. SPL, the ceilings in our listening room came down before we got there."
Here is the confident response...
"The Falcon B139 will actually handle well over 200W RMS peak, so will give you substantially more headroom subject to the other parts of your TLS80 speakers being up to the job now. We’ve not accurately measured max. SPL, the ceilings in our listening room came down before we got there."