As evidenced by others user-experience here, I see no hope going forward onto W11, as M$ lets out the clutch of OS-as-full-monetizing-vehicle. Having to buy a new PC for that is ridiculous. It's the same wheel going round ever since I first joined Intel; "the search for the killer app". The going on 20 year search...
Step 1 is a ween, by completing a dual boot system with Linux; I picked Mint. Was going to try MX, but it wouldnt ID and work around my W10 install. Turns out Mint wouldnt either, until I changed the BIOS setting from "Both" to "UEFI only". I assume MX would have sensed it accordingly, given the chance.
My solution to the upcoming M$ lack of update support is to "Pulse Width Modulate" my usage down from 100%. Hopefully I can keep it in un-bolloxed form by simply turning off the wifi on that "side" of the machine. Boot to the Linux side if I want to go on-line or download something. I can figure out which partition to mount to copy something over to the W10 downloads directory.
We'll see how it goes. Anyone else thinking along these lines?
Step 1 is a ween, by completing a dual boot system with Linux; I picked Mint. Was going to try MX, but it wouldnt ID and work around my W10 install. Turns out Mint wouldnt either, until I changed the BIOS setting from "Both" to "UEFI only". I assume MX would have sensed it accordingly, given the chance.
My solution to the upcoming M$ lack of update support is to "Pulse Width Modulate" my usage down from 100%. Hopefully I can keep it in un-bolloxed form by simply turning off the wifi on that "side" of the machine. Boot to the Linux side if I want to go on-line or download something. I can figure out which partition to mount to copy something over to the W10 downloads directory.
We'll see how it goes. Anyone else thinking along these lines?
I went that way for a couple of decades until I moved to running windows within a virtual machine inside Linux. If you do only "ordinary" things (like iPhone level stuff) then you'll have an easy enough time from the start.
The adjustment you go through where things aren't where you expect them to be and you have to go looking for answers is one thing. You get used to it even though some can be a bit tricky. Issues are often tricky until you get used to the system, since many that write the OS are familiar with dealing with it at a lower level.
The bigger concern I had was when there was something that would only run on windows, since these were holding me back. Eventually you stop using some, people write emulators for things and various other reasons.
Just some pre morning coffee thoughts. Oh, is it worth it in the end? I think so.
Edit: You say Mint, Ok, the Cinnamon desktop environment is simple enough and quite functional with a somewhat conventional feel.
The adjustment you go through where things aren't where you expect them to be and you have to go looking for answers is one thing. You get used to it even though some can be a bit tricky. Issues are often tricky until you get used to the system, since many that write the OS are familiar with dealing with it at a lower level.
The bigger concern I had was when there was something that would only run on windows, since these were holding me back. Eventually you stop using some, people write emulators for things and various other reasons.
Just some pre morning coffee thoughts. Oh, is it worth it in the end? I think so.
Edit: You say Mint, Ok, the Cinnamon desktop environment is simple enough and quite functional with a somewhat conventional feel.
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Agreed.
At least Linux doesn't change everything around each release. Once you get used to it, that's it. Some things are easier and others are just different.
I find Linux far more stable for one, but I am forced to run Windows right now. No way am I going to W11 !
Linux will run faster, so you can spark one up on a smaller, older machine.
At least Linux doesn't change everything around each release. Once you get used to it, that's it. Some things are easier and others are just different.
I find Linux far more stable for one, but I am forced to run Windows right now. No way am I going to W11 !
Linux will run faster, so you can spark one up on a smaller, older machine.
That's what I have on the "other side". I successfully migrated the W10 OS using "DiskGenius" to a larger (2X) Kingston SSD, were it seems to load faster. Then I added the Mint system, letting it do its thing around the existing W10. Turning the PC on, I have to manually select to boot W10, default is Linux Mint. I'd say the whole effort was "simple enough" 👍
Which is what I have at present, just a "6K" level Intel proc in a Lenovo ThinkPad, ineligible for W11 anyway. Or so says M$ - I have seen on line where people who do such things have combed the nits out to where it will load and run on "older" hardware.
There must be some sense of satisfaction in accomplishing something like that. A variation of 👍
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I ditched Windows 15 years ago.
Mac and Linux are my jam now. Never a problem since. And I can run machines into the ground without ever having to reinstall the OS or update a driver or install antivirus software.
Lord, I have an iMac that is more than 10-years old and refuses to die.
Mac and Linux are my jam now. Never a problem since. And I can run machines into the ground without ever having to reinstall the OS or update a driver or install antivirus software.
Lord, I have an iMac that is more than 10-years old and refuses to die.
Congrats on taking the first step. I think Mint was the perfect choice for this first effort. It is stable, has a good dev team, and of course very suitable for those new to Linux. You may end up trying other distros in the future, but it will be entirely unnecessary.
Regarding applications that you are used to running on Windows, I recommend the following options, in order of preference.
1) Use alternatives (ideally open source) that run in Linux natively. This option will be a mixed bag of gold, silver and dust. However, it is really worth the effort. If you want to post a list of the applications you use most, I might be able to suggest some great alternatives to check out. I am sure other members can too.
2) Run Windows in a virtual machine on top of Linux in order to run native windows applications. This is much simpler than it sounds and the performance is much better than you might imagine. There are too many advantages to list here, but one major obvious one is that you can run multiple OSes simultaneously rather than rebooting every time you want to run a Windows app. Removes your need to dual boot and is far more functional and convenient. Dead simple to cut off a virtual machine’s access to the Internet, while maintaining access on the host. File sharing between host and guest OS. The list goes on. For a new user, VirtualBox is probably the simplest choice for virtualization.
3) Use WINE. I actually don’t recommend this for a new user. WINE has come a long way over the years, but results vary from perfect to zero and often enough the user burns hours trying to get an app to run only to find bugs and instability later. Even as a decades long Linux user, I still prefer option 2 over this.
Regarding applications that you are used to running on Windows, I recommend the following options, in order of preference.
1) Use alternatives (ideally open source) that run in Linux natively. This option will be a mixed bag of gold, silver and dust. However, it is really worth the effort. If you want to post a list of the applications you use most, I might be able to suggest some great alternatives to check out. I am sure other members can too.
2) Run Windows in a virtual machine on top of Linux in order to run native windows applications. This is much simpler than it sounds and the performance is much better than you might imagine. There are too many advantages to list here, but one major obvious one is that you can run multiple OSes simultaneously rather than rebooting every time you want to run a Windows app. Removes your need to dual boot and is far more functional and convenient. Dead simple to cut off a virtual machine’s access to the Internet, while maintaining access on the host. File sharing between host and guest OS. The list goes on. For a new user, VirtualBox is probably the simplest choice for virtualization.
3) Use WINE. I actually don’t recommend this for a new user. WINE has come a long way over the years, but results vary from perfect to zero and often enough the user burns hours trying to get an app to run only to find bugs and instability later. Even as a decades long Linux user, I still prefer option 2 over this.
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I get what you're saying. I've seen on line where an existing Windows install on hardware can be converted to a VM. Unsure if I'd want to do a fresh W10 install into a VM; it'd take a lot of OS selection at boot effort to equal the work of reinstalling everything into a new instance. I dont even know where the "key" is on this PC; certainly not on a sticker. If in the BIOS, how would a contained VM instance get to it, to activate?
Perhaps I'm dreaming, but one would think all you have to do is tell the VM container creator "it's these 4 partitions" and it packages it up for you and runs as-if. If that's possible, I'm a bit behind on things...
I’ve been through that before (converting an existing Windows installation from hardware to virtualized). It was a lot of work and ended up being a bit of a cludge. The thing is, when Windows detects such a huge “hardware” change, the activation is revoked and you need to reactivate. So you gain very little by attempting such a conversion.
Much easier to do a fresh install in a VM and then simply opt not to activate. You won’t be needing the stupid spyware updates anyway, and a fresh Windows installation always works better than one that has been bastardized by “updates”, “anti-spyware”, “spyware”, etc.
The VM thing can all be done down the line, when you only need windows for a few applications. Get the bulk of the weening done with your existing configuration.
Don’t give up! Ever. It is worth it!
Much easier to do a fresh install in a VM and then simply opt not to activate. You won’t be needing the stupid spyware updates anyway, and a fresh Windows installation always works better than one that has been bastardized by “updates”, “anti-spyware”, “spyware”, etc.
The VM thing can all be done down the line, when you only need windows for a few applications. Get the bulk of the weening done with your existing configuration.
Don’t give up! Ever. It is worth it!
Actually I've just bought a new W11 equipped laptop. 😳
I tried Linux a while back and it was fine (Cinnamon), but my work used W10, I had to work from home, and it was too messy - especially as work involved high security government stuff so they didn't allow non-Windows computers to connect remotely.
However, I have now retired and will probably have a crack again at Linux on my old W10 lappy. Mint you say?
I tried Linux a while back and it was fine (Cinnamon), but my work used W10, I had to work from home, and it was too messy - especially as work involved high security government stuff so they didn't allow non-Windows computers to connect remotely.
However, I have now retired and will probably have a crack again at Linux on my old W10 lappy. Mint you say?
Congrats on the retirement, Stuey!
Mint is well known to be one of the simplest for new users to install and learn, but is also an incredibly well-managed and solid distribution of Linux that is appropriate for anyone, including longtime Linux users. No shenanigans like over in the Ubuntu world (despite being tied to Ubuntu).
A possibly better choice is LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition). You see, Debian is one of the original Linux distros, known for rock solid stability. It has a massive footprint in the world of Linux, both historically and at present. Countless distros are based on Debian. Ubuntu is based on Debian. Initially it was meant to be a more user-friendly distro built on the strong foundation of Debian. Over the years, Ubuntu has made waves (good and bad). Along the way, Mint came along and decided to out-do Ubuntu at the user experience while making less waves. Their aim is always consistency and community consensus, but they have suffered sometimes due to being based on Ubuntu.
LMDE cuts out the middle-man (Ubuntu); it is Mint built directly on a Debian foundation. This has pros and cons, which I won’t elaborate on for the sake of brevity (perhaps that ship has sailed?) Either way, Mint is a great choice, IMO.
Disclaimer: I do not run Mint myself, nor do I benefit in any way by recommending it.
Mint is well known to be one of the simplest for new users to install and learn, but is also an incredibly well-managed and solid distribution of Linux that is appropriate for anyone, including longtime Linux users. No shenanigans like over in the Ubuntu world (despite being tied to Ubuntu).
A possibly better choice is LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition). You see, Debian is one of the original Linux distros, known for rock solid stability. It has a massive footprint in the world of Linux, both historically and at present. Countless distros are based on Debian. Ubuntu is based on Debian. Initially it was meant to be a more user-friendly distro built on the strong foundation of Debian. Over the years, Ubuntu has made waves (good and bad). Along the way, Mint came along and decided to out-do Ubuntu at the user experience while making less waves. Their aim is always consistency and community consensus, but they have suffered sometimes due to being based on Ubuntu.
LMDE cuts out the middle-man (Ubuntu); it is Mint built directly on a Debian foundation. This has pros and cons, which I won’t elaborate on for the sake of brevity (perhaps that ship has sailed?) Either way, Mint is a great choice, IMO.
Disclaimer: I do not run Mint myself, nor do I benefit in any way by recommending it.
I undertook the transition to Unix and was perhaps a bit short on time to be compatible. Afterwards, I purchased a new laptop with W11 to stay in the game with Autodesk when they banished those running W10 or earlier. Funny thing was, the CAD ran dandy until they shut us out with the forced operating system update.
Within W11, there are a litany of confusing UI and menu layout decisions that make productivity or quick setting changes a bit of an exercise in blood pressure management, compared to any prior operating system I’ve used - and I’ve been using Windows since my elementary school days when they transitioned from MacIntosh (yes, rainbow apple).
The fixes to W11 were largely registry modifications, like getting the “Copy/Paste/Delete/Create New Folder” drop menu to work, instead of having to hold Ctrl which right-clicking. A few were easy, such as disabling OneDrive and limiting the chatter with M$ servers. Some things remain a headache though, since I don’t have the free time to chase them down. They are certainly not limited to reminders to purchase 365 and other subscription rackets that were included or perpetual licenses on prior machines. There is also the case of the infamous font size that changes from screen-to-screen, circular settings that keep leading back to the start in a loop, and, that it never recognises my biometrics after a period of one week.
Most of my lighter CAD work and document management is still done on a W7 laptop. I appreciate menus and layout that promote a fast workflow.
Within W11, there are a litany of confusing UI and menu layout decisions that make productivity or quick setting changes a bit of an exercise in blood pressure management, compared to any prior operating system I’ve used - and I’ve been using Windows since my elementary school days when they transitioned from MacIntosh (yes, rainbow apple).
The fixes to W11 were largely registry modifications, like getting the “Copy/Paste/Delete/Create New Folder” drop menu to work, instead of having to hold Ctrl which right-clicking. A few were easy, such as disabling OneDrive and limiting the chatter with M$ servers. Some things remain a headache though, since I don’t have the free time to chase them down. They are certainly not limited to reminders to purchase 365 and other subscription rackets that were included or perpetual licenses on prior machines. There is also the case of the infamous font size that changes from screen-to-screen, circular settings that keep leading back to the start in a loop, and, that it never recognises my biometrics after a period of one week.
Most of my lighter CAD work and document management is still done on a W7 laptop. I appreciate menus and layout that promote a fast workflow.
Ahhh, I have the same problem, with my fingerprint not being recognised after a week or so. I assumed it was a problem with my laptop, or the fact that I'm doing a lot of manual work which is wearing my fingers. I didn't contemplate it might be a Windows issue.
Smart move.
I write software as a hobby, and Linux is the best software developer environment.
Ed
I write software as a hobby, and Linux is the best software developer environment.
Ed
There's a couple of elements I've found already - basic stuff - that's not as nice as on W10. One is I cant see like a kid anymore, so I need a little magnification on the screen, just 125% on both OSs. Linux Mint does it, though they say that's "experimental". Havent seen any issue - yet. The other is the operation of the track pad. Forget "inertial" scroll; I thought that was solved by everybody decades ago. Even with smooth scrolling turned on, it's not smooth in a comparable way to W10. I'll get used to it, until it's not noticeable anymore...
Little things, I know, compared to what I read above. A common theme with software, is they have to makes changes as a smokescreen to trick the customer into thinking they got something new and better. My take has always been why dont you just fix what you got and/or make it work better? I suppose, that doesnt "sell". Software styling is almost like automobile styling; each new model has to look a bit different.
I'll say it - the sheer arrogance of Autodesk to force their customers onto an OS change, to be able to run the product. Did they "move everything about" in the UI everyone was used to as well, so you have to virtually relearn the whole interface all over?
Being retired, I dont miss that stuff, a bit.
They'll go to h*ll when the day comes that someone can just speak to ChatGPT or some mechanical design trained local AI instance; "create a plate 100mm by 13mm, extrude it to 4mm thickness. Drill six 3mm holes, evenly spaced at 10mm intervals, centered. Generate an output for XXX laser cutting machine" and it does it, as fast as you can read this paragraph.
Little things, I know, compared to what I read above. A common theme with software, is they have to makes changes as a smokescreen to trick the customer into thinking they got something new and better. My take has always been why dont you just fix what you got and/or make it work better? I suppose, that doesnt "sell". Software styling is almost like automobile styling; each new model has to look a bit different.
I'll say it - the sheer arrogance of Autodesk to force their customers onto an OS change, to be able to run the product. Did they "move everything about" in the UI everyone was used to as well, so you have to virtually relearn the whole interface all over?
Being retired, I dont miss that stuff, a bit.
They'll go to h*ll when the day comes that someone can just speak to ChatGPT or some mechanical design trained local AI instance; "create a plate 100mm by 13mm, extrude it to 4mm thickness. Drill six 3mm holes, evenly spaced at 10mm intervals, centered. Generate an output for XXX laser cutting machine" and it does it, as fast as you can read this paragraph.
Yes, I completely agree. Web sites, everything (Digikey used to have an awesome site). Make it pretty, never mind functionality. Most software doesn't have to change much. If anything does, it is "under the hood" stuff we don't need to see.
One software package (accounting) forced me to change to W10 from W7. Total nightmare. They cited "security". Ahhh, no. Security is my problem and no one else's. If things are really sensitive, the box is not plugged into any network, or via RF (WiFi, Bluetooth). IT departments have been brainwashed to only accept current, supported Windows. If any of these people were worth 1/2 of what they are paid, they could secure any computer.
Why do they move and change things? $$$ The training courses and "help support" dollars. It';s another revenue steam. Those changes pretty much only deal with how to get the same stuff done under new rules. In many ways, Microsoft is a real evil empire.
One software package (accounting) forced me to change to W10 from W7. Total nightmare. They cited "security". Ahhh, no. Security is my problem and no one else's. If things are really sensitive, the box is not plugged into any network, or via RF (WiFi, Bluetooth). IT departments have been brainwashed to only accept current, supported Windows. If any of these people were worth 1/2 of what they are paid, they could secure any computer.
Why do they move and change things? $$$ The training courses and "help support" dollars. It';s another revenue steam. Those changes pretty much only deal with how to get the same stuff done under new rules. In many ways, Microsoft is a real evil empire.
Still use systems with W7, W10 and W11 for various tasks. All working without serious flaws. The main issue is that Chrome doesn’t get update with W7 any longer, but it still works. I don’t use Office on my newest system any more, but if I would need it I would buy it second hand for just a small amount.
Regards, Gerrit
Regards, Gerrit
Call me crazy, but having made the desktop switch I actually think Linux sounds better. I haven't measured yet, but speakers sound brighter.
I've used Linux for many years, but my gaming and use of software like Xsim has kept me from making the transition.
I've used Linux for many years, but my gaming and use of software like Xsim has kept me from making the transition.
I was super happy with Windows 7. Then I didn't have a machine at all for a couple of years until I bought a used Thinkpad. It came with win 11, and I was so appalled I decided to switch to MInt. That was about a year ago.
Mint does pretty much everything I need it to do. It's generally lovely, though I would say in some little ways it's not quite as polished as Windows. I use VirtualBox to run Windows (Still 7 at this time, although I am installing Win 10 too), so I can run LTSpice and Irfanview. That works very well and you can even drag-and-drop between Windows and Linux.
Mint does pretty much everything I need it to do. It's generally lovely, though I would say in some little ways it's not quite as polished as Windows. I use VirtualBox to run Windows (Still 7 at this time, although I am installing Win 10 too), so I can run LTSpice and Irfanview. That works very well and you can even drag-and-drop between Windows and Linux.