I have now subscribed to two threads where I offered my 35 years of electronic and system experience.
In both cases my messages were totally ignored.
How long do I have to be in electronics before someone takes my advice ?
In both cases my messages were totally ignored.
How long do I have to be in electronics before someone takes my advice ?
We all listen here, we read, evaluate, ponder......often times scratch our collective heads. Advice taken with a grain-of-salt....flavors things. I would guess your advice offered had to be studied, contemplated or otherwise "processed" by the reader. Don't be dismayed if those who have read your posts don't respond directly. It has been read for sure, perhaps you tied things up in a knot too cleanly, not requiring a response, answering your own question.
????
________________________________________________Rick.............
????
________________________________________________Rick.............
A short and easy answer would be: general public has lousy tastes.
The complete answer is probably more complex: the generic expression for describing such a situation is: "the public is not ready for it ".
Which can mean everything and nothing.
If you offer your best knowledge and advice on this kind of outlet, you have to be prepared for any kind of response/reaction/appreciation (most often the worst).
I have seen incredible gems of knowledge offered for free and simply go unnoticed (browse through jcx posts for instance) and pieces of crap puffed to incredible levels (I will not not give examples there, as they would be moderated anyway).
I sometimes provide valuable pieces of advice (I think so anyway) which are generally completely ignored, but I am prepared to that kind of outcome.
That is the way things go, and before the internet era things were no different: the media were, but the principles have remained the same for some thousands of years. (ever since the written language was invented)
The complete answer is probably more complex: the generic expression for describing such a situation is: "the public is not ready for it ".
Which can mean everything and nothing.
If you offer your best knowledge and advice on this kind of outlet, you have to be prepared for any kind of response/reaction/appreciation (most often the worst).
I have seen incredible gems of knowledge offered for free and simply go unnoticed (browse through jcx posts for instance) and pieces of crap puffed to incredible levels (I will not not give examples there, as they would be moderated anyway).
I sometimes provide valuable pieces of advice (I think so anyway) which are generally completely ignored, but I am prepared to that kind of outcome.
That is the way things go, and before the internet era things were no different: the media were, but the principles have remained the same for some thousands of years. (ever since the written language was invented)
You'd be surprised the effect that clear and logical answers have on many people who are not actively responding or posting. And of course, we tend to rank very high in Google searches. You likely have not cast your pearls before swine.
May I offer an opinion? And I'd like to preface by saying I've been helped immensely by a number of folks here (including, in different ways, each of you that have posted here) in my journey of learning electronics and audio design specifically.
I constantly try and remind myself that "Being right rarely helps" and recently I've been trying to live by "It's never the problem, always the person". What I'm trying to say with both these axioms is that communication of anything to anyone requires that everything about their feelings to a problem or topic needs to be engaged as well if you are to sway them to your way of thinking (irrespective of whether you are objectively right or wrong!).
Learning is hard as well - and made harder if the students ego is bruised by being presented with an idea that makes what they currently believe 'wrong'. In true learning these moments are 'aha!' instances where a misconception is overcome and a better understanding occurs. Sadly, for a lot of people this moment of being humbled is more than their ego can accept, and as such disregard or ignore the 'aha!' information.
In short - it's not you, it's them. If you want to actually alter someones opinion, the investment of energy and effort is often directly proportional to the 'truth' of the information you are offering. I'd second SY's point as well - the potential for learning here at DiyAudio is awesome, and the access to genuine experts who give their time and efforts to complete learners like myself is genuinely appreciated. Maybe not by the folk you're writing to on a thread, but to those researching and learning later on.
Thank you! Each of you has contributed to my learning, even if you didn't know it at the time. 🙂
I constantly try and remind myself that "Being right rarely helps" and recently I've been trying to live by "It's never the problem, always the person". What I'm trying to say with both these axioms is that communication of anything to anyone requires that everything about their feelings to a problem or topic needs to be engaged as well if you are to sway them to your way of thinking (irrespective of whether you are objectively right or wrong!).
Learning is hard as well - and made harder if the students ego is bruised by being presented with an idea that makes what they currently believe 'wrong'. In true learning these moments are 'aha!' instances where a misconception is overcome and a better understanding occurs. Sadly, for a lot of people this moment of being humbled is more than their ego can accept, and as such disregard or ignore the 'aha!' information.
In short - it's not you, it's them. If you want to actually alter someones opinion, the investment of energy and effort is often directly proportional to the 'truth' of the information you are offering. I'd second SY's point as well - the potential for learning here at DiyAudio is awesome, and the access to genuine experts who give their time and efforts to complete learners like myself is genuinely appreciated. Maybe not by the folk you're writing to on a thread, but to those researching and learning later on.
Thank you! Each of you has contributed to my learning, even if you didn't know it at the time. 🙂
Hey, I'm ignored all the time.. lol In general I agree with all of the previous comments. If you help just one person that imo is a good outcome.
I am involved in another endeavour and there it is well known that the sheeple have got it always wrong. In that avenue it is best to follow your own insights and go contrary to what the public is doing.
We all would like to be recognised and respected, unfortunately that is a rare occurrence. It am fond of the expression: "If a scientist and an imbecile argue in front of a panel of lay persons then the lay persons cannot distinguish who is the idiot and who is the scientist".
As such I have now stopped giving advice, what's the point? More often than not there will turn up some tire kicker that will post some snotty remarks and that you do not know $h1t, well I have got better things to do with my time than to argue with nil result.
I have long ago learned that if I want to know something I will need to go back to the original literature, often stuff published 30, 40, 60 years ago.
For instance recently I need to have the definitive answer if the screen tap on an UL transformer needed a grid stopper or not. Took me several days before stumbling on documentation from May 1955 that yes it is required (47 ~ 200 Ohm) and yes it is best to have a small capacitor between screen and plate (1nF ~ 2nF) and that the "usual" UL tap of 43% is not always correct nor that every tube is designed for UL operation.
Enjoy what you are creating, enjoy listening to your creation and forget the rest.
We all would like to be recognised and respected, unfortunately that is a rare occurrence. It am fond of the expression: "If a scientist and an imbecile argue in front of a panel of lay persons then the lay persons cannot distinguish who is the idiot and who is the scientist".
As such I have now stopped giving advice, what's the point? More often than not there will turn up some tire kicker that will post some snotty remarks and that you do not know $h1t, well I have got better things to do with my time than to argue with nil result.
I have long ago learned that if I want to know something I will need to go back to the original literature, often stuff published 30, 40, 60 years ago.
For instance recently I need to have the definitive answer if the screen tap on an UL transformer needed a grid stopper or not. Took me several days before stumbling on documentation from May 1955 that yes it is required (47 ~ 200 Ohm) and yes it is best to have a small capacitor between screen and plate (1nF ~ 2nF) and that the "usual" UL tap of 43% is not always correct nor that every tube is designed for UL operation.
Enjoy what you are creating, enjoy listening to your creation and forget the rest.
Last edited:
There's another aspect to this, aside from what's been mentioned above.
In my experience, how long someone's been doing something is not a useful indicator of how good they are at it. For example, there's plenty of people out there who've been driving for 40 or 50 years and are definitely not good at it.
On a related note, some of the worst nonsense I've seen on this forum has been written by people who try to boost their credibility by claiming "I'm an expert", "I have xx years experience", "I'm an engineer", or something similar.
In a nutshell, an attitude like "Trust me, I'm an expert" doesn't cut much ice around here.
ignorance is bliss,
so they say..😀..a little knowledge is dangerous..
However from my experience there are control systems, signal systems and signal control systems, then there is good practice and then there is audio...😀.
When all is said and done...people are engineers..
people do hobbies and make judgements based upon belief and understanding.
As was said to me once, should a fishing contest winner tell everyone along the river that they are fishing in the wrong way.
We all start somewhere and where we end up is down to fate and the ability to learn.
In the words of Bruce lee...you have to empty your cup before I put anything in it..😀
After many years of learning and teaching and trying to learn...the more I learn the more I understand I know nothing<<and I'm serious!
Regards
M. Gregg
so they say..😀..a little knowledge is dangerous..
However from my experience there are control systems, signal systems and signal control systems, then there is good practice and then there is audio...😀.
When all is said and done...people are engineers..
people do hobbies and make judgements based upon belief and understanding.
As was said to me once, should a fishing contest winner tell everyone along the river that they are fishing in the wrong way.
We all start somewhere and where we end up is down to fate and the ability to learn.
In the words of Bruce lee...you have to empty your cup before I put anything in it..😀
After many years of learning and teaching and trying to learn...the more I learn the more I understand I know nothing<<and I'm serious!
Regards
M. Gregg
Last edited:
Hi Nigel, the other thing is (and it has been touched on above) that sometimes the questions are loaded. That is the person asking may be interested in someone confirming what they already think. If what you advise doesn't fit with what they think they know/need then it will quite possibly be ignored.
It seems that courtesy is a thing of the past. Even if someone doesn't think that what is offered will be of help in their situation, it is common courtesy to at least acknowledge the contribution.
There of course can be other reasons as stated above, person is mulling it over, sometimes the poster may not be online for a few days at a time, one other possibility is when your post falls on a forum page boundary (last on the page) and someone else posts shortly after. Your post actually may be missed. The boundary will depend on the individuals settings too.
Don't let it put you off. When you do get a "thanks, that has solved my problem, or helped" it makes it all worthwhile!
Tony.
It seems that courtesy is a thing of the past. Even if someone doesn't think that what is offered will be of help in their situation, it is common courtesy to at least acknowledge the contribution.
There of course can be other reasons as stated above, person is mulling it over, sometimes the poster may not be online for a few days at a time, one other possibility is when your post falls on a forum page boundary (last on the page) and someone else posts shortly after. Your post actually may be missed. The boundary will depend on the individuals settings too.
Don't let it put you off. When you do get a "thanks, that has solved my problem, or helped" it makes it all worthwhile!
Tony.
Many years agoooo!,
When I was talking to another engineer, the conversation started getting a little heated. The argument was about synchronous speed and slip speed frequency of supply and motor speed...(speed control)
After about 3 minutes I suddenly realised/remembered something I had learned in the past and forgotten, I was talking complete rubbish!
When I realised this (me being me) I said hang on! and the guy stopped talking. Your right I'm wrong and I said what I had remembered. The guy seemed to be taken aback and said thank you..
There was nothing else I could do..I also apologised to him. We worked together for some time after that...😀
Regards
M. Gregg
When I was talking to another engineer, the conversation started getting a little heated. The argument was about synchronous speed and slip speed frequency of supply and motor speed...(speed control)
After about 3 minutes I suddenly realised/remembered something I had learned in the past and forgotten, I was talking complete rubbish!
When I realised this (me being me) I said hang on! and the guy stopped talking. Your right I'm wrong and I said what I had remembered. The guy seemed to be taken aback and said thank you..
There was nothing else I could do..I also apologised to him. We worked together for some time after that...😀
Regards
M. Gregg
Here is how forums on the internet work:
The OP asks a question.
The first responder may have the exact answer the OP was looking for.
The following 23 responders will have their own opinions and theories about the OP's question and will "help" all they can, even getting into arguments with each other to prove who is "wrong".
The OP departed a long time ago but that never stops people from "helping" on forums like this and other ones.
The important part seems to be to never accept someone else's answer and to stand up for what you "know" to be "correct" 🙄
The OP asks a question.
The first responder may have the exact answer the OP was looking for.
The following 23 responders will have their own opinions and theories about the OP's question and will "help" all they can, even getting into arguments with each other to prove who is "wrong".
The OP departed a long time ago but that never stops people from "helping" on forums like this and other ones.
The important part seems to be to never accept someone else's answer and to stand up for what you "know" to be "correct" 🙄
I guess the minimum I was expecting was a thanks or I will give it a try.
In 1980 my time as a software/hardware guy was hired out at £10,000 per month.
I would have though by now I would be worth listening to ?
I don't pretend I know it all because I am still learning every day and still make mistakes.
In 1980 my time as a software/hardware guy was hired out at £10,000 per month.
I would have though by now I would be worth listening to ?
I don't pretend I know it all because I am still learning every day and still make mistakes.
I guess it is really down to you offer up what you know and the OP decides whether your answer is credible or not. Sometimes they do not know enough to even make that determination, and I have observed the phenomenon DavidL discussed in his recent post countless times as well.
I expect no thanks, and only know I have made a new friend when they come back and ask my opinion on something else, that may be the only way to know...
I design and build a lot of stuff from absolute scratch which more often than not I share here, it's generally quite reliable, measures reasonably well in all regards (I would not post it otherwise) and in my very biased opinion sounds good - and perhaps you would be surprised at how little interest those threads garner around here. (Despite a significant local following) OTOH every restoration or modification thread I have ever posted has had a large following.
As I commented earlier if you help one person figure something out you've probably done your good deed for the day.. 😀
FWIW I am reminded every day of how little I actually know, and how many people are much smarter than I - I keep it in mind at all times.
I expect no thanks, and only know I have made a new friend when they come back and ask my opinion on something else, that may be the only way to know...
I design and build a lot of stuff from absolute scratch which more often than not I share here, it's generally quite reliable, measures reasonably well in all regards (I would not post it otherwise) and in my very biased opinion sounds good - and perhaps you would be surprised at how little interest those threads garner around here. (Despite a significant local following) OTOH every restoration or modification thread I have ever posted has had a large following.
As I commented earlier if you help one person figure something out you've probably done your good deed for the day.. 😀
FWIW I am reminded every day of how little I actually know, and how many people are much smarter than I - I keep it in mind at all times.
Well Kevin
And DavidL, you have to understand that this is how it goes 😀
I think I'm right..
Mine mine mine (Finding Nemo) - YouTube
Be Excellent to each other..and party on dudes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csQ1mV7pzDg&list=PLzdPH4dWnBFsHmBjd6vqBp5Dq9yUgRt9s
Regards
M. Gregg
That's OK then..LOL
And DavidL, you have to understand that this is how it goes 😀
I think I'm right..
Mine mine mine (Finding Nemo) - YouTube
Be Excellent to each other..and party on dudes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csQ1mV7pzDg&list=PLzdPH4dWnBFsHmBjd6vqBp5Dq9yUgRt9s
Regards
M. Gregg
Last edited:
Hahaha I knew what that scene would be as soon as I saw the "mine, mine, mine" title to the video. 😀
Hey Nigel, don't worry about it. I am an absolute, no holds barred genius but around here you'd think I'm an idiot. 😉
Doesn't stop me from posting.
Doesn't stop me from posting.
I sometimes get involved with things I haven't covered before so I can become a complete beginner in some areas.
A word of advice, they can both be idiots.
(a professor seat is often bought nowadays, btw)
As you may have guessed, I fall in the total imbecile category.
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.