maJORD,
This is indeed great news that you have no interest in 'The Ashes' and I feel much better that along with the majority of your country men you will not experience that utterley aweful
I only hope the rest are good swimmers.
My apologies for being OT are of course offered once again.
Signore, Va molto benne, facciamo l'amore perque habiamo capacita
Very well Mister, it is all rigth, we will make love, because we have this capacity.
You had the capacity to say the truth.... enormous truth, full of veritá, plenty of verdade, avec la vérite.
The problem Mi Fratello, is that people do not want to hear strong trues, when they have enormous doubts.... when class D and other digital classes could not be accepted...the same way they arrested Nicolau Coppernico perque he said the world turns around the Sun, and not the opposite as the Church was saying.
Class D kick all amplifier classes "S" without any effort, smilling and doing it hard with them....yeahhhhh!
But people do not want to accept...if they accept, their designs will be send to trash!
Their know how will loose value
And they will cannot talk about first time "introductory distortion"...some sexy analogy..... the "Virginity of sound"
No one will can discuss about Intermodulation distortion, and figthing because 0.001 is better than 0.01 and no human could perceive nothing!....ahahahaha!
They will not be worried anymore with phases, cancelling, beating, distortion, overdriven, clipping...they will be alike Devil inside a church.
Those guys do not want, even to listen, they make enormous pression on us...more openned minds...i am constructing class A, and class AB..... and i have to hear those amplifiers...and they sometimes hit my feelings...and i am doing that, not to loose my precious friends...
When i oppened my big mouth to say that other amplifiers classes are dead and people forgot to buried them..... they react with strengh.... saying my class AB "Will eat your class D in the breakfast!"...... or "Please, do not tell me nothing about those things!"..... "i turn "pisted" when you insist with this conversation"..... i decided to call class D.... "the thing"...as they could not accept anyway.
But the true have to survive, despite of my cowardy to face those guys.... because could not loose them around me...talking with me.... i perceive that they will respect me only if i repeat that Class D is evoluting....some day..... long distant future, class D will be good.... they say that!..... and i repeated that...and i am doing that.
You could see the reaction..... the thread guys reaction means:
- "How deer this guy conclude those things when i am already in doubt!"
They are here trying to believe..it is hard to believe when more than half world do not believe.
Well, cars without chassis were considered something that can dissappear fast as "Instantaneous Milk solved into warm watter" if involved in some crash accident.
"Those small japanese cars will never be accepted in US!"
"Russian guys are bad and eat childrens!"
I congratulate you hardly fratello Romano, Ceasar Warrior that hold the "Gladius" to face the barbarians.
Also i congratulate you to go backwards...join the Club my friend...the ones that have to say that the world is squared...that the sky is green, only to be accepted by our community.
Welcome....bienvenutto, tu sei un vero uomo!
arrivederci Legionnari Romani
Carlo di Danesi, di Firenze...brasiliano Italiano e buona gente!
Very well Mister, it is all rigth, we will make love, because we have this capacity.
You had the capacity to say the truth.... enormous truth, full of veritá, plenty of verdade, avec la vérite.
The problem Mi Fratello, is that people do not want to hear strong trues, when they have enormous doubts.... when class D and other digital classes could not be accepted...the same way they arrested Nicolau Coppernico perque he said the world turns around the Sun, and not the opposite as the Church was saying.
Class D kick all amplifier classes "S" without any effort, smilling and doing it hard with them....yeahhhhh!
But people do not want to accept...if they accept, their designs will be send to trash!
Their know how will loose value
And they will cannot talk about first time "introductory distortion"...some sexy analogy..... the "Virginity of sound"
No one will can discuss about Intermodulation distortion, and figthing because 0.001 is better than 0.01 and no human could perceive nothing!....ahahahaha!
They will not be worried anymore with phases, cancelling, beating, distortion, overdriven, clipping...they will be alike Devil inside a church.
Those guys do not want, even to listen, they make enormous pression on us...more openned minds...i am constructing class A, and class AB..... and i have to hear those amplifiers...and they sometimes hit my feelings...and i am doing that, not to loose my precious friends...
When i oppened my big mouth to say that other amplifiers classes are dead and people forgot to buried them..... they react with strengh.... saying my class AB "Will eat your class D in the breakfast!"...... or "Please, do not tell me nothing about those things!"..... "i turn "pisted" when you insist with this conversation"..... i decided to call class D.... "the thing"...as they could not accept anyway.
But the true have to survive, despite of my cowardy to face those guys.... because could not loose them around me...talking with me.... i perceive that they will respect me only if i repeat that Class D is evoluting....some day..... long distant future, class D will be good.... they say that!..... and i repeated that...and i am doing that.
You could see the reaction..... the thread guys reaction means:
- "How deer this guy conclude those things when i am already in doubt!"
They are here trying to believe..it is hard to believe when more than half world do not believe.
Well, cars without chassis were considered something that can dissappear fast as "Instantaneous Milk solved into warm watter" if involved in some crash accident.
"Those small japanese cars will never be accepted in US!"
"Russian guys are bad and eat childrens!"
I congratulate you hardly fratello Romano, Ceasar Warrior that hold the "Gladius" to face the barbarians.
Also i congratulate you to go backwards...join the Club my friend...the ones that have to say that the world is squared...that the sky is green, only to be accepted by our community.
Welcome....bienvenutto, tu sei un vero uomo!
arrivederci Legionnari Romani
Carlo di Danesi, di Firenze...brasiliano Italiano e buona gente!
Attachments
Hi Carlos,
Hahaha.... shame on you.
You can be worried about being accepted or you can enjoy within your self the fact that you are right, having no need to share in their own personal hang ups, or perhaps ignorance, if you will, some more than others.
Just build your class d amps small poweful and clean, tell them it's a class A... who cares, if they don't believe you their only reason will be that it sounds too good and runs too cool, you dont' even need to agree with them.
Regards,
Chris
Hahaha.... shame on you.
You can be worried about being accepted or you can enjoy within your self the fact that you are right, having no need to share in their own personal hang ups, or perhaps ignorance, if you will, some more than others.
Just build your class d amps small poweful and clean, tell them it's a class A... who cares, if they don't believe you their only reason will be that it sounds too good and runs too cool, you dont' even need to agree with them.
Regards,
Chris
Hi Everyone,
Class-D has a promising future in HI-FI as well as in Pro-audio..
Presently, We manufacture Class-AB NVMOS amps, but in coming 2-3 years Class-D would be our first & Final choice. We have Build several prototypes and samples and they are running under testing period....for now!
Class-D has several immaculate advantages in Pro-audio.
Excellent Sound
High Power Density
Very low heatsinking
Light power supply as compared to Class-AB
Robust when subjected to reactive Loads
At last light weight and of course the magic!
cheers to all,
K a n w a r
Class-D has a promising future in HI-FI as well as in Pro-audio..
Presently, We manufacture Class-AB NVMOS amps, but in coming 2-3 years Class-D would be our first & Final choice. We have Build several prototypes and samples and they are running under testing period....for now!
Class-D has several immaculate advantages in Pro-audio.
Excellent Sound
High Power Density
Very low heatsinking
Light power supply as compared to Class-AB
Robust when subjected to reactive Loads
At last light weight and of course the magic!
cheers to all,
K a n w a r
Thank you ClassD4sure and Kanwar
I think exactly alike you two, nothing to add or to remove, and nothing to discuss...just some details to say.
They use to show us the weeknesses of Class D, those common amplifiers used in home Systems.... they are really limited in frequency range.
I made CD recordings having all sinus tones, going from 5 herts to 20 kilohertz...and really, i have started to perceive some speaker movement around 38 hertz and could not listen nothing above 16 kilohertz...it is a Philips System of sound that i already published monthes ago....now, had passed long time, i have a more exact evaluation.
And the evaluation is that i do not change a word, sound is great, nice, precise, clear and wonderfull to hear.... much better than the average quality Class A, AB amplifiers.... but now a days i can see that top quality amplifiers can reproduce a more clear treble and a more deep bass...... related mine poor home system that costed 300 dollares....or something around that.
Well, we cannot have wonderfull result with only 300 dollares, the speaker cannot be manufactured with wonderfull drivers, the enclosure cannot be golden one, the power transformer may be not so big as needed, and also have tuners and CD mechanics, and circuits for MP3 and for standard CD reproduction, logics to comunicate with computer and all stuff..... cannot be something from out space beeing so cheap and having so much things inside the package.
But despite this deceptive perception, that my class D has a very big roll of in bass range.... that perception simply disappeared when i go hearing it day by day...and resulted that i love the sound, i concluded that the low distortion, the dinamics and flat amplifier was giving me the wonderfull sonics i was perceiving, and kicking easy other more standard amplifiers (systems) i had in my home.
But finally i made the damned test...the A to B comparison testing...i was afraid of the result, as i think we adjust the sonics using our brain... i already had the suspection that i was loving that amplifier because it's clever and news technology (not so new)...i already had the idea that sound perception have something related to feelings, empathy with the designer, the how much you like the appearance, how much you trust in the money value...beeing expensive may be good...how long you listen to the amplifier...having time or not to brain adjust the whole thing or not.
In other words, to be very simple and direct...i imagine that we can apreciate some amplifier because it was made by a good friend.
I imagine that we can apreciate some amplifier because it looks good.
I can have some idea that sometimes we apreciate things because they are expensive, hard to find unit... some custom desire.
And also i can imagine that we will not like some amplifier constructed by someone you do not apreciate...a bad guy's amplifier will sound bad.
Well, all those suspections are connected to the fact that we are humans, we have feelings and we do not listen nothing with our ears...we listen with our brains, and this organ...that is US.... my brain is ME...and my feelings department have conversations with my logics department and sometimes the logic win the discussion, other times the feelings department wins the discussion...so... result is more subjective than objective.
MP3 is using some human ear characteristic, that we cannot listen a wisper in the presence of a thunder captured alive from a storm..... the wisper cannot be heard.... you can see it in some waveform...if recorded, the wisper will be there...but we cannot hear...as storm is thousand times bigger in volume, in intensity and can erase the perception or listening...so.... there are things that exist and we do not perceive...so...they do not exist!!!... and MP3 delete those details that we cannot listen, reducing some length using this method (and many others)
It was studied, and done by many people well related to Psychology, the human perception studies, define that the brain can fill gaps.... and this can explain why we can listen to a small old portable radio, with 1 inch speaker, those hard to move units...without any bass...amplifier cutted from 300 hundred hertz...and you will perceive some bass, a confusion with the drums beat or a brain composition?
Well...i was filling the gaps all those days.but when i compared my class D with others more standard amplifiers......comparing A to B....oh my God!...very deceptive..... exactly the deep low and the extreme highs were not reproduced by my class D cheap system.
Ahahahahah!.... what a shame on me!...but separated from the others i used to make the A to B comparison,...hearing in my sleeping room i use to apreciate it very much...in special when my wife goes hearing with me, in our bed.... till............... do you understand....... those human factors may influence a lot our evaluations.
Those details are the ones that make the A and AB standard amplifiers lovers, tell us that Class D is not High Fidelity..... and i can understand that some unit that cannot reproduce from 20 to 20K are considered not high fidelity... and i can accept that this kind of evaluation is not too much wrong...as we can hear from 10 Hertz to 17K easy.... also that rule is a little bit unprecise related our realistic capabilities... and depending how loud the tone is..as we have losses in the low end.
Of course i can understand that may exist many Class D that are able to reproduce 10 hertz and reach 17 kilohertz and even more, and i am evaluating something old, something cheap and something that are not the highest possible quality...but i also can understand those guys that makes some oposition to class D...based in those aspects, now a days very common, as class D is beeing manufactured in massive quantities those last years only.
I also think that analogical amplifiers will be comdemned to death in a matter of some years, but always will exist the guys that will defend their old things....because they cannot dennie themselves...as they know that technology, that was with them whole life, in all important life moments, and they felt good with those sounds...they cannot dennie that anymore..this is a self suicide..... a suicide of the love you have to your own person... send to trash those old things can be equivalent than dive themselves into the garbage can.
regards,
Carlos
I think exactly alike you two, nothing to add or to remove, and nothing to discuss...just some details to say.
They use to show us the weeknesses of Class D, those common amplifiers used in home Systems.... they are really limited in frequency range.
I made CD recordings having all sinus tones, going from 5 herts to 20 kilohertz...and really, i have started to perceive some speaker movement around 38 hertz and could not listen nothing above 16 kilohertz...it is a Philips System of sound that i already published monthes ago....now, had passed long time, i have a more exact evaluation.
And the evaluation is that i do not change a word, sound is great, nice, precise, clear and wonderfull to hear.... much better than the average quality Class A, AB amplifiers.... but now a days i can see that top quality amplifiers can reproduce a more clear treble and a more deep bass...... related mine poor home system that costed 300 dollares....or something around that.
Well, we cannot have wonderfull result with only 300 dollares, the speaker cannot be manufactured with wonderfull drivers, the enclosure cannot be golden one, the power transformer may be not so big as needed, and also have tuners and CD mechanics, and circuits for MP3 and for standard CD reproduction, logics to comunicate with computer and all stuff..... cannot be something from out space beeing so cheap and having so much things inside the package.
But despite this deceptive perception, that my class D has a very big roll of in bass range.... that perception simply disappeared when i go hearing it day by day...and resulted that i love the sound, i concluded that the low distortion, the dinamics and flat amplifier was giving me the wonderfull sonics i was perceiving, and kicking easy other more standard amplifiers (systems) i had in my home.
But finally i made the damned test...the A to B comparison testing...i was afraid of the result, as i think we adjust the sonics using our brain... i already had the suspection that i was loving that amplifier because it's clever and news technology (not so new)...i already had the idea that sound perception have something related to feelings, empathy with the designer, the how much you like the appearance, how much you trust in the money value...beeing expensive may be good...how long you listen to the amplifier...having time or not to brain adjust the whole thing or not.
In other words, to be very simple and direct...i imagine that we can apreciate some amplifier because it was made by a good friend.
I imagine that we can apreciate some amplifier because it looks good.
I can have some idea that sometimes we apreciate things because they are expensive, hard to find unit... some custom desire.
And also i can imagine that we will not like some amplifier constructed by someone you do not apreciate...a bad guy's amplifier will sound bad.
Well, all those suspections are connected to the fact that we are humans, we have feelings and we do not listen nothing with our ears...we listen with our brains, and this organ...that is US.... my brain is ME...and my feelings department have conversations with my logics department and sometimes the logic win the discussion, other times the feelings department wins the discussion...so... result is more subjective than objective.
MP3 is using some human ear characteristic, that we cannot listen a wisper in the presence of a thunder captured alive from a storm..... the wisper cannot be heard.... you can see it in some waveform...if recorded, the wisper will be there...but we cannot hear...as storm is thousand times bigger in volume, in intensity and can erase the perception or listening...so.... there are things that exist and we do not perceive...so...they do not exist!!!... and MP3 delete those details that we cannot listen, reducing some length using this method (and many others)
It was studied, and done by many people well related to Psychology, the human perception studies, define that the brain can fill gaps.... and this can explain why we can listen to a small old portable radio, with 1 inch speaker, those hard to move units...without any bass...amplifier cutted from 300 hundred hertz...and you will perceive some bass, a confusion with the drums beat or a brain composition?
Well...i was filling the gaps all those days.but when i compared my class D with others more standard amplifiers......comparing A to B....oh my God!...very deceptive..... exactly the deep low and the extreme highs were not reproduced by my class D cheap system.
Ahahahahah!.... what a shame on me!...but separated from the others i used to make the A to B comparison,...hearing in my sleeping room i use to apreciate it very much...in special when my wife goes hearing with me, in our bed.... till............... do you understand....... those human factors may influence a lot our evaluations.
Those details are the ones that make the A and AB standard amplifiers lovers, tell us that Class D is not High Fidelity..... and i can understand that some unit that cannot reproduce from 20 to 20K are considered not high fidelity... and i can accept that this kind of evaluation is not too much wrong...as we can hear from 10 Hertz to 17K easy.... also that rule is a little bit unprecise related our realistic capabilities... and depending how loud the tone is..as we have losses in the low end.
Of course i can understand that may exist many Class D that are able to reproduce 10 hertz and reach 17 kilohertz and even more, and i am evaluating something old, something cheap and something that are not the highest possible quality...but i also can understand those guys that makes some oposition to class D...based in those aspects, now a days very common, as class D is beeing manufactured in massive quantities those last years only.
I also think that analogical amplifiers will be comdemned to death in a matter of some years, but always will exist the guys that will defend their old things....because they cannot dennie themselves...as they know that technology, that was with them whole life, in all important life moments, and they felt good with those sounds...they cannot dennie that anymore..this is a self suicide..... a suicide of the love you have to your own person... send to trash those old things can be equivalent than dive themselves into the garbage can.
regards,
Carlos
Hi Carlos,
I agree with most of that but really if you want to impress your friends.... apples with apples?
What kind of systems do your friends put up against what I have to call your ghetto blaster.
Since you're now totally convinced of the merits of class d perhaps it's time for a more serious investment in it?
Regards,
Chris
I agree with most of that but really if you want to impress your friends.... apples with apples?
What kind of systems do your friends put up against what I have to call your ghetto blaster.
Since you're now totally convinced of the merits of class d perhaps it's time for a more serious investment in it?
Regards,
Chris
I think you guys are all fools
the same could be said for any class when subjectively judged
second class-d has good sound,all classes have good sound!!!!!
kanwar please, i like cheap too, if they become mainstream the big
guys will sell them too way way too cheap and you wont be able to make a cent!
i respect your opinions on class-d what you like is up to you, when i know
more about class-d i might end up like you guys, class-d guys class-d yeah!!!
cheers
the same could be said for any class when subjectively judged
second class-d has good sound,all classes have good sound!!!!!
kanwar please, i like cheap too, if they become mainstream the big
guys will sell them too way way too cheap and you wont be able to make a cent!
i respect your opinions on class-d what you like is up to you, when i know
more about class-d i might end up like you guys, class-d guys class-d yeah!!!
cheers
Hi Mastertech,
You seems to be overemphasized by the merits of linear amp, thats why you dont able to give enough space to the capability of class-D amps, and the big guys you are talking about wont slash there prices as compared to us!
Lets take an example a 2400W pro-amp cost about 1400USD, but we are just giving it at about 800USD, you would say that there must be something inferior, not at all..the truth is that we use NVMOS that are much cheaper than the bipolars! but ultra reliable in every aspect.....
I am not here to market my products but only illustrated the stats associated with it....
regards,
K a n w a r
You seems to be overemphasized by the merits of linear amp, thats why you dont able to give enough space to the capability of class-D amps, and the big guys you are talking about wont slash there prices as compared to us!
Lets take an example a 2400W pro-amp cost about 1400USD, but we are just giving it at about 800USD, you would say that there must be something inferior, not at all..the truth is that we use NVMOS that are much cheaper than the bipolars! but ultra reliable in every aspect.....
I am not here to market my products but only illustrated the stats associated with it....
regards,
K a n w a r
the one and only kanwar
are you saying that workhorse is moving to class-d amps only ,then you've
made the right decision, i think you are one of the best , you know your
market better than the big guys, good luck!
i aint moving just yet, i have to see some schematics first, to do a spice
comparison with what i know of class-a,b,ab the high cost is not an issue
to HiFi, HiFi is just that high cost and high-fidelity
carlosfm-
"yeah like vinyl"
are you saying that class-a,b,ab is going somewhere? where?, vinyl is still here
just take a look at a hifi magazine!,vinyl my friend is expensive now, you tell
me why dvd players are so cheap?,you guys dont read hifi magazines now?
cheers
are you saying that workhorse is moving to class-d amps only ,then you've
made the right decision, i think you are one of the best , you know your
market better than the big guys, good luck!
i aint moving just yet, i have to see some schematics first, to do a spice
comparison with what i know of class-a,b,ab the high cost is not an issue
to HiFi, HiFi is just that high cost and high-fidelity
carlosfm-
"yeah like vinyl"
are you saying that class-a,b,ab is going somewhere? where?, vinyl is still here
just take a look at a hifi magazine!,vinyl my friend is expensive now, you tell
me why dvd players are so cheap?,you guys dont read hifi magazines now?
cheers
mastertech said:
Cool down, mastertech.
I love vinyl, I was born with it, grew up with it, never left it, and I listen to lots of vinyl on my main system.
Maybe I choosed the wrong 'smile'?
To answer to your question, basically electronics can be made much cheaper than good mechanics.
A good turntable and arm is a work of art.
A 'good' dvd player it just a chipset, and assembling parts from all sorts of manufacturers, copying the datasheet's circuits. And mostly a cheap transport mechanics full of cheap and fragile plastic parts.
Btw I read audio mags, I buy several every month.
They are basically bathroom reading.
AAAhhh....... four days without the sound of my homebrew amp..... it's just too much.
Mastertech do you only require the schematic for simulation purposes? It's pretty damned useless unless you want to build one and _hear_ it.
The simulations are respectable but far from realistic and shouldnt' be used in that form of comparison at all!
As far as where class d is going from here.... it seems silly to argue the future, but if we can agree that it at least gives a very respectable sound, then we can agree that it will take over the _mainstream_ commercial junk because it can be done much more cheaply. A cheap class d will still sound like a cheap class d and a cheap class a will.... bla bla bla.
The key word is mainstream, nothing is going to fade into existance just yet, and yeah it sure seems like the land of high end will still be most expensive.
Good stuff on the bathroom reading
Regards,
Chris
Mastertech do you only require the schematic for simulation purposes? It's pretty damned useless unless you want to build one and _hear_ it.
The simulations are respectable but far from realistic and shouldnt' be used in that form of comparison at all!
As far as where class d is going from here.... it seems silly to argue the future, but if we can agree that it at least gives a very respectable sound, then we can agree that it will take over the _mainstream_ commercial junk because it can be done much more cheaply. A cheap class d will still sound like a cheap class d and a cheap class a will.... bla bla bla.
The key word is mainstream, nothing is going to fade into existance just yet, and yeah it sure seems like the land of high end will still be most expensive.
Good stuff on the bathroom reading
Regards,
Chris
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