I'm trying to make myself a pair of small, very affordable subs to compliment my speakers which crap their pants at 60hz in my large lounge room.
I've modeled up a bunch of car subs (easy to find, cheap to buy). In WinISD. A Pioneer TS-W306R or Pioneer A300S4 (both 12 inch) in a 40L sealed box gets a fairly decent model. Can I safely assume that it'll sound good, or are there factors that that separate a good sub from a bad one?
I'll probably use a behringer CX2310 as a crossover and power them from a spare 160W @8ohm amp (300W @4 ohm)
I've modeled up a bunch of car subs (easy to find, cheap to buy). In WinISD. A Pioneer TS-W306R or Pioneer A300S4 (both 12 inch) in a 40L sealed box gets a fairly decent model. Can I safely assume that it'll sound good, or are there factors that that separate a good sub from a bad one?
I'll probably use a behringer CX2310 as a crossover and power them from a spare 160W @8ohm amp (300W @4 ohm)
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could only find T/S prams for the TS-W306R; they look plausible, xmax is quite high for such a budget sub so may be double the usual value. Should work fine, have you checked that 300W is enough to take them to xmax?
WinISD shows it exceeding xmax from 50-27hz at 300W.
Will a budget sub like this be less "punchy" then an expensive one? I'm fairly happy with the curve that WinISD produces, but I'm wondering what I lose by using such a cheap driver
80% music, 20% movies. I'm not really a "bass head", but I'm sick of the hollow, boomy low-end of my speakers.
Will a budget sub like this be less "punchy" then an expensive one? I'm fairly happy with the curve that WinISD produces, but I'm wondering what I lose by using such a cheap driver
80% music, 20% movies. I'm not really a "bass head", but I'm sick of the hollow, boomy low-end of my speakers.
Yes, most certainly. With a high Qts, Le and Mms and a low Bl, those drivers will lack midbass punch. The opposite would be a B&C 15SW115 which has a very low Le compared to Bl and power handling. But it is much more expensive.
Look for a driver with a Qts below 0,3 if you want a good definition and a good midbass punch.
Cheers. Is Levc the same as Le? I've looked at heaps of drivers and few seem to just list "Le". Now this is a dumb question but- with regard to "midbass punch" does that even matter at all? isn't the mid-bass the speaker's job?
For now, I'll research the paramaters that you mentioned. Another cheap driver I've considered is the Pioneer TS-A300S4. From the T/S parameters I'm struggling to work out if it's better or worse.
For now, I'll research the paramaters that you mentioned. Another cheap driver I've considered is the Pioneer TS-A300S4. From the T/S parameters I'm struggling to work out if it's better or worse.
In a sealed box, only if no equalisation is applied. The un-processed frequency response is not very important as its the easiest thing to correct. EQ should always be applied in room due to modal behaviour and low frequency boosting. When designing sealed systems I just look at the maximum possible output within the thermal, amplifier power and excursion limitations.
Agree with kipman. Cross at 80 hz or so, eq as needed, brace the box against buzzes, maybe consider push-push dual drivers to suppress the walk-about if you crank it.
Ok, this suddenly got a bit confusing.Kipman and phivates- are you guys advocating for or against the driver that I'm looking at? I've got a 31 bar EQ and a mic/REW. My amp has no difficulty putting out power all day
Another driver of potential interest is the Rockford Fosgate 2D4-12. It has lower MMS, Qts (00.6) and higher BL. The Le is quite a bit higher than the Levc of the pioneer and the Xmax is far lower (6.5mm). The -3db is 42hz vs 33hz. I guess it generally has better specs that Circlomanen mentioned, but lacks the oomph of the pioneer
Would this provide better or worse results? Sorry for the spoonfeeding, but most of the info on this sub are about way more complex topics than the basics of getting a nice "musical" sub by looking at models and specs
Another driver of potential interest is the Rockford Fosgate 2D4-12. It has lower MMS, Qts (00.6) and higher BL. The Le is quite a bit higher than the Levc of the pioneer and the Xmax is far lower (6.5mm). The -3db is 42hz vs 33hz. I guess it generally has better specs that Circlomanen mentioned, but lacks the oomph of the pioneer
Would this provide better or worse results? Sorry for the spoonfeeding, but most of the info on this sub are about way more complex topics than the basics of getting a nice "musical" sub by looking at models and specs
I've always taken the term "Punch" to apply to frequencies above bass; as Circlomanen says. It's easy to make a sealed box too small and hard to make them too big. So try modelling those drivers in the biggest boxes you living room will allow and look at what happens. Make an approximate allowance for possible room gain and corner placements.
XO at 80Hz in nominally where I do it using the CX 2310. I've found that old-school car subwoofers better for this use than modern ones but I have no idea where those drivers you nominate fall but with a Qts that high I would have stated with Vb equal to Vas
XO at 80Hz in nominally where I do it using the CX 2310. I've found that old-school car subwoofers better for this use than modern ones but I have no idea where those drivers you nominate fall but with a Qts that high I would have stated with Vb equal to Vas
Le = Levc
And yes, midbass punch is the job of your main speakers, if you're only looking at 60 Hz and below.
The ratio of Le/Re does sometimes give a rough idea of how good the driver's motor is (smaller ratios are better), and Qts between 0.3 and 0.4 does suggest some flexibility in usage options (sealed, vented, etc).
There's also the question of whether the actual t/s parameters match the published ones. I haven't measured any Pioneer drivers, but I've usually found that the t/s parameters of JBL and Infinity car audio subwoofers seem to be good match for their published parameters. Alpine's are usually a good match as well.
I would say go for it with the caution the xmax may be less than stated. A sealed sub generates sound by displacement of air by the driver so parameters like Qts don't matter as long as your able to move the driver to it's mechanical limits with the amp power you have.
I've given myself the go-ahead, so I'll buy the stuff soon.
Before I do though- is a behringer CX2310 a suitable way to handle the crossover? Connect speakers to "high" and subwoofer to "low" (and not utilise the subwoofer output, since there's only 1 and I'll have 2 subs)
Before I do though- is a behringer CX2310 a suitable way to handle the crossover? Connect speakers to "high" and subwoofer to "low" (and not utilise the subwoofer output, since there's only 1 and I'll have 2 subs)
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