Sanyo/ICE Power chip
Do a search for Sanyo:
LA4930M (service.semic.sanyo.co.jp/semi/ds_j/NA0079.pdf), LV4970M (service.semic.sanyo.co.jp/semi/ds_j/NA0080.pdf), STK280-100, STK290-130 and STK428-430.
The spec sheets are too large to attach in this forum. Do note these spec sheets appear to only be available in Japanese. If anyone can translate, this would be useful. However, since the electronic symbols are universal, they are not that difficult to figure out.
I have no clue about the availability of these chips. I would expect to have to buy like 10,000 of any of them to be able to get them. A little frustrating though because just last Friday I held in my hands prototypes of modules that will be coming out in the next year that have these chips in them.
At least I will be able to get them when they come out, or at least the ones that suit the needs of our customers.
Dan
Do a search for Sanyo:
LA4930M (service.semic.sanyo.co.jp/semi/ds_j/NA0079.pdf), LV4970M (service.semic.sanyo.co.jp/semi/ds_j/NA0080.pdf), STK280-100, STK290-130 and STK428-430.
The spec sheets are too large to attach in this forum. Do note these spec sheets appear to only be available in Japanese. If anyone can translate, this would be useful. However, since the electronic symbols are universal, they are not that difficult to figure out.
I have no clue about the availability of these chips. I would expect to have to buy like 10,000 of any of them to be able to get them. A little frustrating though because just last Friday I held in my hands prototypes of modules that will be coming out in the next year that have these chips in them.
At least I will be able to get them when they come out, or at least the ones that suit the needs of our customers.
Dan
UCD/ICE Comparison
Joules:
Rather than just give my impressions, here's a link to what a number of folks thought:
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=23928&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Larry
Joules:
Rather than just give my impressions, here's a link to what a number of folks thought:
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=23928&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Larry
thanks larry, will check that out - although i should be careful not to prejudice my review too much with other people's listening impressions. the mind really has an ability to play tricks on itself. 😉
i think i may have to pick up a couple dummy load resistors, and hook up my ipod on infinite repeat to break the darn thing in... i don't have very much dedicated listening time in a week, and living in an apartment rules out playing at high levels for long periods of time. at my current rate it's not going to be broken in til september. 🙄
perhaps i should look into these local audio community meetings, i would love to get wider exposure to different gear as well as meet fellow 'philes.
i think i may have to pick up a couple dummy load resistors, and hook up my ipod on infinite repeat to break the darn thing in... i don't have very much dedicated listening time in a week, and living in an apartment rules out playing at high levels for long periods of time. at my current rate it's not going to be broken in til september. 🙄
perhaps i should look into these local audio community meetings, i would love to get wider exposure to different gear as well as meet fellow 'philes.
Re: UCD/ICE Comparison
Hi Dan,
Thanks alot for those IC #'s, very interesting, what do you think, spells the end of Tripath?
Regards,
Chris
Hi Dan,
Thanks alot for those IC #'s, very interesting, what do you think, spells the end of Tripath?
Regards,
Chris
Gee, Cartman......
You guys are doing youir homework very well.
I know a comapny that makes amps using UcD and ICEpower. Both have transformer coupled inputs.
Jocko
You guys are doing youir homework very well.
I know a comapny that makes amps using UcD and ICEpower. Both have transformer coupled inputs.
Jocko
Me?
I was trying to be sarcastic without sounding sarcastic. Sometimes not good for business.
AFAIK, you are not in the business of reviewing new products, so you are not expected to be on top of all the brands, etc.
"Cartman" is. At least, I think he is.
Jocko
I was trying to be sarcastic without sounding sarcastic. Sometimes not good for business.
AFAIK, you are not in the business of reviewing new products, so you are not expected to be on top of all the brands, etc.
"Cartman" is. At least, I think he is.
Jocko
Re: Me?
i'm not in the "business," just a contributor to a small publication. we're not a slick industry rag, we just comment on what we hear. i've been on hiatus for a couple years and haven't kept up with all the new developments in the industry.
i see you haven't lost your mediocre sense of humor Jocko. 🙂
Jocko Homo said:
i'm not in the "business," just a contributor to a small publication. we're not a slick industry rag, we just comment on what we hear. i've been on hiatus for a couple years and haven't kept up with all the new developments in the industry.
i see you haven't lost your mediocre sense of humor Jocko. 🙂
So Jocko with your infinite wisdom - why don't you add the two that you mention (but did not name) to the list that I compiled above ? I urge you to be constructive ...
Well, guys...........this is a DIY forum. I would rather not discuss any commercial ventures that I may be involved in here. That is not the point of this place. I am here to share what I have learned the last several decades before my brain turns to mush with age and repeated exposure to my mediocre sense of humour.
But, if you as an individual, are curious, there is an e-mail feature. I answer all my mail, even from guys who start out by saying how much I annoy them and wish I would get lost.
Thye usually have something they want answered...........and yes, they get their answer.
The "wish" part they will have to wait on.
Jocko
But, if you as an individual, are curious, there is an e-mail feature. I answer all my mail, even from guys who start out by saying how much I annoy them and wish I would get lost.
Thye usually have something they want answered...........and yes, they get their answer.
The "wish" part they will have to wait on.
Jocko
jocko, i can understand your discretion, and appreciate your wealth of knowledge and contributions to this forum - like others i have learned a lot from your posts. sometimes we could just do without the accompanying grating edge. 😛
for now, i'll take your skipping the opportunity to throw another thinly veiled insult my way as a makeshift apology. 🙂
if it's ok for you to answer - is the input xformer used in lieu of an input buffer, or in conjunction with it? i've always been curious about xformers and might like to try them in my own projects, but i'm never sure how well suited they are to a specific application.
p.s. i miss the occassional lashing from your ol' buddy harry/fred/whatever his name was. have you been in touch with him lately?
for now, i'll take your skipping the opportunity to throw another thinly veiled insult my way as a makeshift apology. 🙂
if it's ok for you to answer - is the input xformer used in lieu of an input buffer, or in conjunction with it? i've always been curious about xformers and might like to try them in my own projects, but i'm never sure how well suited they are to a specific application.
p.s. i miss the occassional lashing from your ol' buddy harry/fred/whatever his name was. have you been in touch with him lately?
Thinly veiled insult......?
C'mon, you know I am not that subtle.
For someone who uses Cartman as an avatar, you are carrying on in a very un-Cartman like manner. How can we respect your ah-thor-a-tah?
As for Phred..........he is hiding beneath a stack of old sci-fi books, as the humour value of bashing people he deems to be worthy of bashing has worn off.
Transformers:
Well, both. All the Class D stuff has to have an input LPF. The transformer adds one more layer of keeping out crud. Somtimes a buffer is needed, as certain brands have relatively low input Z, and to control the FR, it is sometimes desirable (although not necessary) to add a buffer.
Think CMRR. You can run unbalanced, and get the benefits of balanced. When you think about it, most balanced gear is done wrong, so it might even be better.
Main drawback: $$$$. Not to mention a sonic signature that some will find objectionable.
BTW........."mediocre" was your choice of words, not mine. "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!" Or something like that.
Jocko
C'mon, you know I am not that subtle.
For someone who uses Cartman as an avatar, you are carrying on in a very un-Cartman like manner. How can we respect your ah-thor-a-tah?
As for Phred..........he is hiding beneath a stack of old sci-fi books, as the humour value of bashing people he deems to be worthy of bashing has worn off.
Transformers:
Well, both. All the Class D stuff has to have an input LPF. The transformer adds one more layer of keeping out crud. Somtimes a buffer is needed, as certain brands have relatively low input Z, and to control the FR, it is sometimes desirable (although not necessary) to add a buffer.
Think CMRR. You can run unbalanced, and get the benefits of balanced. When you think about it, most balanced gear is done wrong, so it might even be better.
Main drawback: $$$$. Not to mention a sonic signature that some will find objectionable.
BTW........."mediocre" was your choice of words, not mine. "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!" Or something like that.
Jocko
update.
i wasn't doing nearly enough sustained listening to break the amp in, so yesterday i hooked up a pair of small speakers firing into each other out of phase and fed the amp a mono signal from my computer playing a variety of MP3's at high volume level. i only got about 15 hours in, but the difference in sound quality is dramatic - things are sounding much fuller and easier on the ears now.
i'm going to pick up some 4 ohm dummy loads this week and put another 50-100 hours of sustained playing on the amp - hopefully that should break them in fully.
i wasn't doing nearly enough sustained listening to break the amp in, so yesterday i hooked up a pair of small speakers firing into each other out of phase and fed the amp a mono signal from my computer playing a variety of MP3's at high volume level. i only got about 15 hours in, but the difference in sound quality is dramatic - things are sounding much fuller and easier on the ears now.
i'm going to pick up some 4 ohm dummy loads this week and put another 50-100 hours of sustained playing on the amp - hopefully that should break them in fully.
A thorough review of any of those amps would use 4 & 8 ohm loads. Try it, and you'll find out why.
The 250 will fare better than the 500. Don't even think of the 1000, unless you are really good buddies with the manufacturer.
Translation: if you hold them in disdain, try running those suckers in 2 ohms. Heh-heh.
Jocko
The 250 will fare better than the 500. Don't even think of the 1000, unless you are really good buddies with the manufacturer.
Translation: if you hold them in disdain, try running those suckers in 2 ohms. Heh-heh.
Jocko
I migth as well poste an update from me as well - having read about the long burn in period in this thread, I put the Ice back in the chain, and have had it playing since - low radio at nigth, and music during the day - I have not noticed any particular change. I then borrowed a Nordost Brahma mains cable, and this expensive pice of copper changed the sound dramaticly - It became more open and detailed in upper midrange and treble - it no more sounds a little dark and laid back - the bass and lower mid did not change wery much, a bit more pronounced bass - but this point I not sure about, as I only had the mains cable for a day, and the by far most obvious change was the deminishing of the "dull-and-dry" effect. I still does not play ambiance as well as other amps in my system, and I suspect this as beeing the reason the bass lacks attack and pronouncation - I thinkl the lack of sharp transients is what makes my ears bellive that the bass is very "thin and anonymous" - a bit like listening to a slap bass record without the tweeter coupled in.....
Imaging is very good now though, and good stereo records place singers and instruments very sharply cut out in the soundstage, that still suffer for beeing a bit narrow i think.
This is a different amp in many ways - and I would be very careful to cast judgement over it by means of testing it as a normal "analouge" amp - I bellive that its full potential is not releaved in my system.
Cheers !
Buhl
Imaging is very good now though, and good stereo records place singers and instruments very sharply cut out in the soundstage, that still suffer for beeing a bit narrow i think.
This is a different amp in many ways - and I would be very careful to cast judgement over it by means of testing it as a normal "analouge" amp - I bellive that its full potential is not releaved in my system.
Cheers !
Buhl
Output Impedance and Power
A really heavy line cord could make a difference in that it will improve the damping factor. Do understand that class-D amplifiers, because of the passive network that converts PWM back into audio has a substantial impedance compared to the output network on a class-AB amplifier.
This does not show up with conventional damping factor measurement because this is calculated under static conditions. Basically from measuring the output voltage with the load connected and again with the amp running into an open circuit. Math is applied and a damping factor number results. However, this is better than it might otherwise be because of the feedback loop. However, in dynamic conditions, the relatively high output impedance of the amplifier becomes a factor which will definitely affect the sound in an unpredictable way.
It will improve the sound with some speakers and make it worse in others. It will maybe improve the lows and take away from the highes while having the opposite effect with other speakers. But it will not sound the same as a Clas-AB amplifier under audiophile listening conditions. In my experience, with some 18" subs we do not get as much deep low end punch on hip-hop, that is less chest pounding impact on synthesized bass but get a much nicer sound out of real instruments, specially the Fender and Rickenbacker bass guitars.
Instead of spending $1200 on an AC cord, I suggest you spend $50.00 to $100.00 and have an electrician make you an AC cord with wire as fat as they can get into a good Hubbel AC plug, like 10 or 8 Gauge. Hubbel brand is one of the best, if not the very best AC plugs available in 110-120V countries. Then have the AC socket in the wall replaced with a top grade socket as well, specially if your home is over 10 years old. An AC socket that is old and corroded will take away all the gain you get from a top grade AC cord. And hopefully, you are NIT plugging the power amplifier into a $3.00 Chinese power bar. Your power amp must plug directly into the wall, through NO extension cords or power bars. Your low power stuff can use a power bar but in an audiophile system where you get a benefit from a better power cord, your power amp cannot go through cheap wiring.
Dan
A really heavy line cord could make a difference in that it will improve the damping factor. Do understand that class-D amplifiers, because of the passive network that converts PWM back into audio has a substantial impedance compared to the output network on a class-AB amplifier.
This does not show up with conventional damping factor measurement because this is calculated under static conditions. Basically from measuring the output voltage with the load connected and again with the amp running into an open circuit. Math is applied and a damping factor number results. However, this is better than it might otherwise be because of the feedback loop. However, in dynamic conditions, the relatively high output impedance of the amplifier becomes a factor which will definitely affect the sound in an unpredictable way.
It will improve the sound with some speakers and make it worse in others. It will maybe improve the lows and take away from the highes while having the opposite effect with other speakers. But it will not sound the same as a Clas-AB amplifier under audiophile listening conditions. In my experience, with some 18" subs we do not get as much deep low end punch on hip-hop, that is less chest pounding impact on synthesized bass but get a much nicer sound out of real instruments, specially the Fender and Rickenbacker bass guitars.
Instead of spending $1200 on an AC cord, I suggest you spend $50.00 to $100.00 and have an electrician make you an AC cord with wire as fat as they can get into a good Hubbel AC plug, like 10 or 8 Gauge. Hubbel brand is one of the best, if not the very best AC plugs available in 110-120V countries. Then have the AC socket in the wall replaced with a top grade socket as well, specially if your home is over 10 years old. An AC socket that is old and corroded will take away all the gain you get from a top grade AC cord. And hopefully, you are NIT plugging the power amplifier into a $3.00 Chinese power bar. Your power amp must plug directly into the wall, through NO extension cords or power bars. Your low power stuff can use a power bar but in an audiophile system where you get a benefit from a better power cord, your power amp cannot go through cheap wiring.
Dan
I have also noticed the long breakin of my ICE amps. I haven't experimented with power cords yet, my amps came with nice Wattgate power cords. But what I have done is experimented with feet and a 3" thick granite base. For feet I've tryed wood, brass and glass, the more ridged the material the more resolved the bass gets. At this point glass wins.
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