Hi there,
At the moment, I'm experimenting with some 300ASC modules ... so just wondering if anyone managed to get standby feature to work?
According to the manual:
http://www.icepower.dk/files/solutions/icepower300asc_datasheet_1_2_20150204.pdf
I've connected Balanced +/-/gnd input to Balanced Signal Sense inputs on connector P4 pins 1/2/3 but module will not power on at all. When I connect Balanced +/-/gnd to P3 connector and then just move + to Signal Sense + (pin 4) module will power on but standby doesn't kick in at all.
From the manual:
Signal Sense and Triggers (5V and 12V)
The ICEpower300ASC has two trigger inputs and a signal sense input that turns on the power supply and amplifier. The two trigger inputs and the signal sense perform a logic OR function internally. The 5V trigger has an internal weak pull-up to ensure that the amplifier as default will power up if the trigger inputs are left open.
The board is able to power up from standby mode by applying an audio signal to the Balanced Signal Sense input. Single ended Signal Sense can be used via connector P3 pin 4 or P4 pin 1 but requires the negative signal sense input to be shorted to Signal Sense GND.
When an audio signal is detected, the power supply will switch from standby mode to on mode and the amplifier will turn on. The power supply will return to standby mode again if no audio signal has been detected for 13 minutes.
If this feature is not required, the input can be left unconnected or connected to ground.
Then from the manual again:
Typical usage of Signal Sense and Triggers:
1. Always on:
Leave signal sense and trigger inputs open. In this mode, the amplifier will never enter standby.
2. Automatically standby and power on depending on the audio input:
Connect the signal sense input to the audio signal and pull the 5V trigger low. The amplifier will power on when audio is present and enter standby after 13 minutes without audio.
3. Manual standby and power on via 5V trigger:
Leave signal sense unconnected and drive the 5V trigger low to enter standby and high to power on.
4. Manual standby and power on via 12V trigger:
Leave signal sense unconnected and short the 5V trigger to GND. Drive the 12V trigger low to enter standby and high to power on.
To improve the noise immunity for an unused signal sense input, short Signal Sense +, Signal Sense - and Signal Sense GND.
Does it mean that I would need 5V low trigger in parallel with Signal Sense inputs to operate? It's a bit confusing ... so just wondering if anyone managed to get this to work.
Thanks!
At the moment, I'm experimenting with some 300ASC modules ... so just wondering if anyone managed to get standby feature to work?
According to the manual:
http://www.icepower.dk/files/solutions/icepower300asc_datasheet_1_2_20150204.pdf
I've connected Balanced +/-/gnd input to Balanced Signal Sense inputs on connector P4 pins 1/2/3 but module will not power on at all. When I connect Balanced +/-/gnd to P3 connector and then just move + to Signal Sense + (pin 4) module will power on but standby doesn't kick in at all.
From the manual:
Signal Sense and Triggers (5V and 12V)
The ICEpower300ASC has two trigger inputs and a signal sense input that turns on the power supply and amplifier. The two trigger inputs and the signal sense perform a logic OR function internally. The 5V trigger has an internal weak pull-up to ensure that the amplifier as default will power up if the trigger inputs are left open.
The board is able to power up from standby mode by applying an audio signal to the Balanced Signal Sense input. Single ended Signal Sense can be used via connector P3 pin 4 or P4 pin 1 but requires the negative signal sense input to be shorted to Signal Sense GND.
When an audio signal is detected, the power supply will switch from standby mode to on mode and the amplifier will turn on. The power supply will return to standby mode again if no audio signal has been detected for 13 minutes.
If this feature is not required, the input can be left unconnected or connected to ground.
Then from the manual again:
Typical usage of Signal Sense and Triggers:
1. Always on:
Leave signal sense and trigger inputs open. In this mode, the amplifier will never enter standby.
2. Automatically standby and power on depending on the audio input:
Connect the signal sense input to the audio signal and pull the 5V trigger low. The amplifier will power on when audio is present and enter standby after 13 minutes without audio.
3. Manual standby and power on via 5V trigger:
Leave signal sense unconnected and drive the 5V trigger low to enter standby and high to power on.
4. Manual standby and power on via 12V trigger:
Leave signal sense unconnected and short the 5V trigger to GND. Drive the 12V trigger low to enter standby and high to power on.
To improve the noise immunity for an unused signal sense input, short Signal Sense +, Signal Sense - and Signal Sense GND.
Does it mean that I would need 5V low trigger in parallel with Signal Sense inputs to operate? It's a bit confusing ... so just wondering if anyone managed to get this to work.
Thanks!
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Interestingly enough, got the following reply from ICEpower support:
From the manual itself, if I understood this correctly:
The ICEpower300ASC has two trigger inputs and a signal sense input that turns on the power supply and amplifier. The two trigger inputs and the signal sense perform a logic OR function internally. The 5V trigger has an internal weak pull-up to ensure that the amplifier as default will power up if the trigger inputs are left open.
I was hoping that I could avoid the need to introduce external 5V to the module 5V trigger pin, so that signal sense can be used on it's own. The modules do have low power (Vsleep) +5V output (P3/Pin 5), but not sure (didn't measure voltage) if they are live and could be looped back to the 5V trigger.
Forgot to mention, I'm testing the standby switch over by attaching 12V red led to the connector P5 pins 2/3. Basically, it never lights up.
I was under impression that one can use signal sense inputs independent from the actual 5V/12V triggers, so in essence I would need to provide the external 5V to the P4/Pin6 5V trigger, as internal weak 5V weak pull up is not in effect to initially power on the module.
From the manual itself, if I understood this correctly:
The ICEpower300ASC has two trigger inputs and a signal sense input that turns on the power supply and amplifier. The two trigger inputs and the signal sense perform a logic OR function internally. The 5V trigger has an internal weak pull-up to ensure that the amplifier as default will power up if the trigger inputs are left open.
I was hoping that I could avoid the need to introduce external 5V to the module 5V trigger pin, so that signal sense can be used on it's own. The modules do have low power (Vsleep) +5V output (P3/Pin 5), but not sure (didn't measure voltage) if they are live and could be looped back to the 5V trigger.
Forgot to mention, I'm testing the standby switch over by attaching 12V red led to the connector P5 pins 2/3. Basically, it never lights up.
I don't have experience with that board, but it looks like you need to jumper your +/- input signals over to the +/- signal sense terminals and connect both the signal sense ground pin and the 5V trigger pin to your chassis ground.
Agree, that's how I read it as well. If you want to use the signal sense it sounds like you need to pull both the trigger to ground, otherwise the pull-up on the 5V trigger will keep the module powered up regardless of the state of the sense pins.
/U.
/U.
Thanks chaps! Just managed to log-in to review your thoughts. Indeed, does make some sense. In particular, I was a bit perplexed with the meaning of "pul the 5V trigger low" as it doesn't make much sense to introduce the low voltage level external circuit if one want to use signal sense only.
Quite surprised with 300ASC, by the way! For such SFF module and seriously low heat emission (let alone no presence of heat-sinks) it does give really respectable power on tap. Managed to wrestle quite nicely with my Elac FS407 speakers and I do prefer them over the 125ASX2 series especially as input impedance across the freq response is more stable, so one may not need buffer board strictly. I'm driving the modules directly with balanced pre-amp connection. Actually, just finished drilling the case and soldering everything neatly. Will post few pics shortly ...
SpeakON, RCA and switch are left unconnected for further expansion (primarily RCA->XLR buffer board) and SpeakON parallel connection as I prefer them over the usual binding post. Even managed to install white+red LEDs to indicate the amp state ... 🙂
Quite surprised with 300ASC, by the way! For such SFF module and seriously low heat emission (let alone no presence of heat-sinks) it does give really respectable power on tap. Managed to wrestle quite nicely with my Elac FS407 speakers and I do prefer them over the 125ASX2 series especially as input impedance across the freq response is more stable, so one may not need buffer board strictly. I'm driving the modules directly with balanced pre-amp connection. Actually, just finished drilling the case and soldering everything neatly. Will post few pics shortly ...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
SpeakON, RCA and switch are left unconnected for further expansion (primarily RCA->XLR buffer board) and SpeakON parallel connection as I prefer them over the usual binding post. Even managed to install white+red LEDs to indicate the amp state ... 🙂
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I see. OK ... did a quick test. I've reconnected balanced +/-/gnd input to the signal sense header P4 and pins 1/2/3 respectively. Then, I've shorted the pins 5/6 via wire (5V trigger to the ground). PCB itself is already grounded to the chases via PCB mounting screw:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Now, module would refuse to power up. Red light is on (blinking as I've put blinking red LED) and I could hear faint relay clicks. Re-conecting everything back and all is good.
I guess, that parallel connection to balanced (non-signal sense) input is not needed and 12V trigger should be left open as nothing was mentioned in the manual?
Yes, it's very nice and compact chassis just perfect for 300ASC. Only slight complain is that back panel could benefit from a bit more reinforcement, but for the price really can't complain much! I've bought the chassis from:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2104-Full...858851?hash=item3f54376fa3:g:4g8AAOSwFnFWBBZA
There was just IEC opening in place and somewhat perfect for my Schurter unit as I had few at hand. Everything else is drilled and built by me (step drill is perfect for rather neat back panel holes).
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Hmmm ... I suppose that you are suggesting to have parallel signal +/-/gnd connections to both signal sense P4 and input P3 headers? I was under impression that signal sense inputs are operating independently.
I'm just going by my interpretation of the documents you linked. I have some experience with the 5V remote trigger on the ASX boards, and in that design pulling the 5V trigger pin to ground shuts off the amp. I assume that your board is comparing the voltages between the input signal and signal trigger terminals to determine when there's a signal, and if that's not the way it works what is the point of having the two sets of terminals? It seems to me that the 5V pin is used to shut off the amp (which is similar to my boards), except when there's a signal going into the two sets of terminals. This trigger circuit is nicely designed if it is comparing two sets of voltages instead of being designed around a fixed voltage.
Thanks for that! As soon as I grab some free time, I will experiment further. Yes, having two sets of terminals was a bit puzzling to me too. Not only that, but there is also another (single) signal sense + input at header P3 pin4 so maybe placing a jumper on pin8 and pin4 may have similar effect.
Using auto-standby with 300ASC is extremely simple and straight-forward: pull 5V trigger low (connect to GND), that's it.
Depending on level and time conditions of the signal applied to the sense pins it then powers up and down automatically.
If you want to have the module running after mains switch-on even with no signal on the sense pins you need to trick a little, of course. Either inject a short "fake" audio signal into the sense circuit or make you own detector circuit (powered from Vsleep) that triggers a non-resetting flip-flop to pull 5V-trigger low only after a valid audio signal has been present, "valid" means it must be able to trigger the internal startup circuitry.
Depending on level and time conditions of the signal applied to the sense pins it then powers up and down automatically.
If you want to have the module running after mains switch-on even with no signal on the sense pins you need to trick a little, of course. Either inject a short "fake" audio signal into the sense circuit or make you own detector circuit (powered from Vsleep) that triggers a non-resetting flip-flop to pull 5V-trigger low only after a valid audio signal has been present, "valid" means it must be able to trigger the internal startup circuitry.
The sense+ on P3 is for backward compatibility with 200ASC.
You may connect this to signal+ but the module will not wake up if someone is using a balanced source that does only feed signal- while signal+ is kept silent.
Plus it will wake up if a common mode signal is present, not what you want.
Gear connected to balanced signals shall make no assumptions about signal levels with respect to GND. Only the difference of the signals is what is relevant (the whole deal with balanced connections, besides the required impedance balancing).
You may connect this to signal+ but the module will not wake up if someone is using a balanced source that does only feed signal- while signal+ is kept silent.
Plus it will wake up if a common mode signal is present, not what you want.
Gear connected to balanced signals shall make no assumptions about signal levels with respect to GND. Only the difference of the signals is what is relevant (the whole deal with balanced connections, besides the required impedance balancing).
Firstly, thanks everyone for rather useful contributions. Much appreciated. Finally managed to re-solder everything up:
... and there is a progress, finally, as modules are entering stand-by mode. Apart from the signal frequency range, it seems that stand-by or wake-up threshold is defined by the volume too (min voltage). In turn, I think that threshold is set a bit high then I would prefer though. Last night I was watching some TV programme and listening level was a bit quieter but still useful and surprisingly enough modules triggered the stand-by mode. As soon as the volume is moved notch up (and a bit higher then needed) they resumed from the stand-by state. I guess that there is nothing in particular I could do to alter the volume threshold before stand-by is triggered ...
Also, did try to hook up only signal sense inputs and modules are reacting to the balanced signal (standby/resume) but there is no audio output. In that sense, parallel connection is needed indeed (header P3 6/7/8 to header P4 3/2/1), as advised above.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
... and there is a progress, finally, as modules are entering stand-by mode. Apart from the signal frequency range, it seems that stand-by or wake-up threshold is defined by the volume too (min voltage). In turn, I think that threshold is set a bit high then I would prefer though. Last night I was watching some TV programme and listening level was a bit quieter but still useful and surprisingly enough modules triggered the stand-by mode. As soon as the volume is moved notch up (and a bit higher then needed) they resumed from the stand-by state. I guess that there is nothing in particular I could do to alter the volume threshold before stand-by is triggered ...
Also, did try to hook up only signal sense inputs and modules are reacting to the balanced signal (standby/resume) but there is no audio output. In that sense, parallel connection is needed indeed (header P3 6/7/8 to header P4 3/2/1), as advised above.
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Just run some further tests ... standby triggers are definitely too aggressive for low level listening as modules are constantly going into stand-by. I was under impression that stand-by is triggered only when there is NO audio signal (music stopped or there is a silence) and not according to actual volume level. If that's part of the design, not sure if sensitivity could be somewhat adjusted.
The standby sensing in the 300ASC is level and frequency dependant, resulting in different times until standby is triggered.
If you need more sensitivity you need to put a booster (powered from Vsleep) into the feed for the sense inputs. This booster should consist of a diff-amp to reject common mode signals and a gainstage... which can be integrated into one building block, using a two-opamp high input resistance diff-amp with gain.
If you need more sensitivity you need to put a booster (powered from Vsleep) into the feed for the sense inputs. This booster should consist of a diff-amp to reject common mode signals and a gainstage... which can be integrated into one building block, using a two-opamp high input resistance diff-amp with gain.
Thanks for the feedback! Honestly, by default design, circuit is pretty much unusable for low level listening. If one doesn't want to fiddle further, living it on 24x7 or using remotely controller power sockets is probably decent alternative.
Your booster suggestion makes sense, as only signal sense inputs will be altered leaving the primary balanced feed intact (and output stage). Just came to my mind, I have some input buffers (RCA->XLR convertors) at hand ... ghentaudio --- RTX (unbalnced RCA to balanced XLR Converting) Module and single ended RCA output gives +6db boost (gain) so may as well use that for single ended signal sense input (by shorting the negative+ground pins). I was planning to integrate this module anyway, so may tackle the standby circuit sensitivity (and enable RCA power amp input).
Your booster suggestion makes sense, as only signal sense inputs will be altered leaving the primary balanced feed intact (and output stage). Just came to my mind, I have some input buffers (RCA->XLR convertors) at hand ... ghentaudio --- RTX (unbalnced RCA to balanced XLR Converting) Module and single ended RCA output gives +6db boost (gain) so may as well use that for single ended signal sense input (by shorting the negative+ground pins). I was planning to integrate this module anyway, so may tackle the standby circuit sensitivity (and enable RCA power amp input).
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