Hi all! I am new to this forum. Been reading through all day and it looks like this is the place that I want to be.
I am a serious, life-long audiophile. I am also an experienced woodworker with a pretty decent shop. I've never had the desire to build my own, but the bug recently bit me and I'm beginning a lengthy research phase before the build begins.
I do not do things simply. I do not care to work my way up, I want to just go for it. I also have really great speakers, so it's not worth the effort unless I build something terrific (or at least I hope it will be terrific!)
I'm leaning towards a few parameters as my starting point. I plan on building a three-way, sealed box, electronically crossed over pair. I have a McIntosh MC206 6 channel amp, so I have the juice to do a pair of individually powered three-ways. I am going to soon purchase a DEQX HDP5 preamp/processor for my main system. I recognize that this device is perfect for an active speaker with its fully adjustable 3 way digital crossover, time correction, room correction, EQ, and a full suite of measurement tools. The DEQX will eliminate all of the crossover considerations and most of the phase and timing considerations from the speaker design. So the core objective is to put the best drivers into the most rigid box that I can build. My preliminary estimates indicate that I can do the drivers and box for well under $5000, which is doable.
I'm leaning towards ScanSpeak Revelator or Illuminator drivers. Either a beryllium or ring radiator tweeter, a 4 to 5 inch mid, and two 10 inch woofers in a sealed enclosure (sealed box is one of the few parameters I'm pretty set upon.) The box is going to be quite ambitious. I want to do a Baltic Birch laminate. I LOVE the exposed layer look and I think the flexibility to custom route each layer into a random pattern interior is perfect. I'm still thinking about the exterior design and I need a lot of help with the interior layout and dimensions. One thing I want to do is make very thick side walls, around 2 inches. Wiring and binding posts are parameters as well and I want to use premium parts. I'm still considering how to do the baffles as well. I love the design concept of the Magico Mini and M5 and those are a bit of my inspiration -except without a nearly 2" thick CNC machined aluminum baffle!
So that's what I'm thinking. Any and all feedback is most welcome as well as links to anything remotely similar. Also, the critical question, am I crazy???
I am a serious, life-long audiophile. I am also an experienced woodworker with a pretty decent shop. I've never had the desire to build my own, but the bug recently bit me and I'm beginning a lengthy research phase before the build begins.
I do not do things simply. I do not care to work my way up, I want to just go for it. I also have really great speakers, so it's not worth the effort unless I build something terrific (or at least I hope it will be terrific!)
I'm leaning towards a few parameters as my starting point. I plan on building a three-way, sealed box, electronically crossed over pair. I have a McIntosh MC206 6 channel amp, so I have the juice to do a pair of individually powered three-ways. I am going to soon purchase a DEQX HDP5 preamp/processor for my main system. I recognize that this device is perfect for an active speaker with its fully adjustable 3 way digital crossover, time correction, room correction, EQ, and a full suite of measurement tools. The DEQX will eliminate all of the crossover considerations and most of the phase and timing considerations from the speaker design. So the core objective is to put the best drivers into the most rigid box that I can build. My preliminary estimates indicate that I can do the drivers and box for well under $5000, which is doable.
I'm leaning towards ScanSpeak Revelator or Illuminator drivers. Either a beryllium or ring radiator tweeter, a 4 to 5 inch mid, and two 10 inch woofers in a sealed enclosure (sealed box is one of the few parameters I'm pretty set upon.) The box is going to be quite ambitious. I want to do a Baltic Birch laminate. I LOVE the exposed layer look and I think the flexibility to custom route each layer into a random pattern interior is perfect. I'm still thinking about the exterior design and I need a lot of help with the interior layout and dimensions. One thing I want to do is make very thick side walls, around 2 inches. Wiring and binding posts are parameters as well and I want to use premium parts. I'm still considering how to do the baffles as well. I love the design concept of the Magico Mini and M5 and those are a bit of my inspiration -except without a nearly 2" thick CNC machined aluminum baffle!
So that's what I'm thinking. Any and all feedback is most welcome as well as links to anything remotely similar. Also, the critical question, am I crazy???
You are not crazy for wanting to build speakers.
What are speakers you have heard and liked?
Personally I have built with Scan Speak 18WU-4741T00 and D3004/664000 and find them horrible. Always boring no matter what I used them in but to each their own.
Binding posts aren't parameters that matter but again I get the excitement. A pretty good option are 4mm banana sockets. Good enough for lab equipment, way good enough for speakers.
If you want panel stiffness bracing gives you better results than just uninspired panel thickness.
What are speakers you have heard and liked?
Personally I have built with Scan Speak 18WU-4741T00 and D3004/664000 and find them horrible. Always boring no matter what I used them in but to each their own.
Binding posts aren't parameters that matter but again I get the excitement. A pretty good option are 4mm banana sockets. Good enough for lab equipment, way good enough for speakers.
If you want panel stiffness bracing gives you better results than just uninspired panel thickness.
Danke Kaputt. Thanks for the feedback on the drivers. That is where I need a lot of feedback, since unlike with commercial speakers, it is almost impossible to compare. I've read generally good things about ScanSpeak and I know they are used by some of the great speaker builders -but I'm open to alternatives.
I currently have terrific Raidho D1 monitors electronically crossed over to a single JL f113. My prior speakers were Martin Logan CLXes (terrific with great recordings, very fussy), McIntosh XRT1Ks, and B&W N802 and N805s. My gear is McIntosh amps and an Oppo BDP105. Most of my listening is streamed 16/44 from my large FLAC collection or Tidal.
The great speakers I've loved are Rockport Atrias, YG Anat, TAD CR1, MBLs, any Raidho, and Nola. I liked the older wood body Magicos but have been underwhelmed by their metal body speakers. I've had generally good experience with Sonus Faber. I liked the older B&Ws, but have had mixed feelings about their diamond tweeter models. I have had very mixed experience with Wilson, not my cup of tea. I like a big sound stage and accuracy, but my main goal is beauty -I want to be enveloped in warm, glorious music, I want to hear female voices that make me melt, jazz quartets like they're playing in front of me, and rock and roll that disrupts foundations. My current system gets me about as close to this utopia as anything I've owned and most of what I've heard in all but the most exotic systems.
Yes, I am crazy audiophile! Help me!
I currently have terrific Raidho D1 monitors electronically crossed over to a single JL f113. My prior speakers were Martin Logan CLXes (terrific with great recordings, very fussy), McIntosh XRT1Ks, and B&W N802 and N805s. My gear is McIntosh amps and an Oppo BDP105. Most of my listening is streamed 16/44 from my large FLAC collection or Tidal.
The great speakers I've loved are Rockport Atrias, YG Anat, TAD CR1, MBLs, any Raidho, and Nola. I liked the older wood body Magicos but have been underwhelmed by their metal body speakers. I've had generally good experience with Sonus Faber. I liked the older B&Ws, but have had mixed feelings about their diamond tweeter models. I have had very mixed experience with Wilson, not my cup of tea. I like a big sound stage and accuracy, but my main goal is beauty -I want to be enveloped in warm, glorious music, I want to hear female voices that make me melt, jazz quartets like they're playing in front of me, and rock and roll that disrupts foundations. My current system gets me about as close to this utopia as anything I've owned and most of what I've heard in all but the most exotic systems.
Yes, I am crazy audiophile! Help me!
+1 you're crazy 
The irregular interior as is sometimes seen won't achieve much. It's good in theory but not necessary, and rarely done to the right scale. The outside of the cabinet is a more important shape.
Wiring connections should be clean, otherwise wires are a small consideration. They won't do anything bad.
The irregular interior as is sometimes seen won't achieve much. It's good in theory but not necessary, and rarely done to the right scale. The outside of the cabinet is a more important shape.
Wiring connections should be clean, otherwise wires are a small consideration. They won't do anything bad.
(Wording?).. This is a common misconception. It won't change any of what needs to be done and where it does, it won't necessarily be to your advantage in the long run. Best to understand what it will be doing and why.
+1 AllenB
Hi JR,
Your not crazy, at all, but I would start with a two way, even though you are doing it all digitally. Getting the filters right is going to drive you nuts either way. Unless DEQX has a built in crossover generator, you have quite a bit of work ahead of you in terms of measuring, configuring and adjusting.
May I suggest you look over the LM-1. Since I have published it, I can share the design files, and you can use them to guide your crossover work.
I'm not sure how DEQX works. I use OmniMic to spit out miniDSP bi-quad filters and voila!
Best,
Erik
Hi JR,
Your not crazy, at all, but I would start with a two way, even though you are doing it all digitally. Getting the filters right is going to drive you nuts either way.
Unless DEQX has a built in crossover generator, you have quite a bit of work ahead of you in terms of measuring, configuring and adjusting. May I suggest you look over the LM-1. Since I have published it, I can share the design files, and you can use them to guide your crossover work.
I'm not sure how DEQX works. I use OmniMic to spit out miniDSP bi-quad filters and voila!
Best,
Erik
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I have built about a dozen speakers over the last few years.
Its an addiction that hard to get rid of.
Sealed box dual Fane 12-250TC.
Sealed box dual Fane 12-200.
Sealed box dual Fane 12-100.
Sealed box Fane 18-600.
Bass reflex Pyle 21-1000
Folded horn Fane 12-500.
2 off folded horn Fane 10-300.
Sealed box 4 off Fane 10-60
Folded horn Fane 15-600LF.
Single vent folded horn Fane 12-500.
Half folded horn Fane 12-500.
Half folded horn Fane 15-400.
Its an addiction that hard to get rid of.
Sealed box dual Fane 12-250TC.
Sealed box dual Fane 12-200.
Sealed box dual Fane 12-100.
Sealed box Fane 18-600.
Bass reflex Pyle 21-1000
Folded horn Fane 12-500.
2 off folded horn Fane 10-300.
Sealed box 4 off Fane 10-60
Folded horn Fane 15-600LF.
Single vent folded horn Fane 12-500.
Half folded horn Fane 12-500.
Half folded horn Fane 15-400.
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Have you heard these? I've heard some of the brands you mention but felt the JBLs have a lot to offer.
Everest DD67000 - JBL Synthesis
Everest DD67000 - JBL Synthesis
+1 AllenB
Hi JR,
Your not crazy, at all, but I would start with a two way, even though you are doing it all digitally. Getting the filters right is going to drive you nuts either way.
Erik
For a newbie I would recommend a full range single speaker per channel.
No crossovers to mess up the sound.
Fane do a couple of full rangers.
Fane 12-200LT.
Fane 12-250TC triple cone goes up to 17KHz. The bass isn't fantastic but it gives reasonable results.
Excellent start with the DEQX (i have one myself for several years).
Personnally, with such great tool, i'd go with some real subwoofers, not woofers. You'll enjoy having real first octave stuff, so you need good xmax/mech drivers. Always had great results with 10's from JL audio, but you can use the Dayton Ultramax series as well for a lower cost solution.
We're blind testing the tweeters soon so i might regret telling you this, but as far as i'm concerned, the best tweeters are from RAAL (ribbon). Very reliable, transparent and ultra-detailed sound yet not irritating.
Midrange ?
Well...
anything that can cover 150hz-3khz might do the trick. Try to get at least 93db 1w/1m...
Thanks guys, this is great feedback. I was thinking about a 2 way to start. That's probably the smart way to go both on the cabinet side and the crossover.
The DEQX is pretty incredible. You guys should check it out, I think you'll find it pretty interesting. The three way crossover is in the digital domain and is terrifically flexible. For DIY speakers, this means that I can build the speaker and tweak the crossover frequency and slopes in real time and measure it all as well. That would eliminate the limitations of the fixed parameters of a passive crossover. The phase adjustments also allow compensating for time domain considerations and the EQ can likely address a few inevitable mistakes. DEQX High Definition Audio
The DEQX is pretty incredible. You guys should check it out, I think you'll find it pretty interesting. The three way crossover is in the digital domain and is terrifically flexible. For DIY speakers, this means that I can build the speaker and tweak the crossover frequency and slopes in real time and measure it all as well. That would eliminate the limitations of the fixed parameters of a passive crossover. The phase adjustments also allow compensating for time domain considerations and the EQ can likely address a few inevitable mistakes. DEQX High Definition Audio
Being able to tweak and measure changes in real time really is a great benefit of active crossovers.
Magically getting to done, not so much. ;-)
Best,
Erik
Magically getting to done, not so much. ;-)
Best,
Erik
Excellent start with the DEQX (i have one myself for several years).
Personnally, with such great tool, i'd go with some real subwoofers, not woofers. You'll enjoy having real first octave stuff, so you need good xmax/mech drivers. Always had great results with 10's from JL audio, but you can use the Dayton Ultramax series as well for a lower cost solution.
We're blind testing the tweeters soon so i might regret telling you this, but as far as i'm concerned, the best tweeters are from RAAL (ribbon). Very reliable, transparent and ultra-detailed sound yet not irritating.
Midrange ?
Well...
anything that can cover 150hz-3khz might do the trick. Try to get at least 93db 1w/1m...
Thanks Jon, that validates some of my thoughts. I saw the RAAL ribbon tweeters on Madisound's site and they looked pretty intriguing. I love the ribbons in my Raidhos.
Perhaps I'll start with a two-way kit like this: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...=search&search_in=all&x=0&y=0&search_str=Nada
I could do the laminated layer box and perhaps do the crossovers externally so that I have the option of using either internal passive or external active crossovers. That might be just the place to start.
Yup, active crossovers are easy to use.
Most sound bad unless you drop money for Marchand.
But they allow you to try all sorts of combinations.
We have fun with diy and experimenting.
It can be pricy, especially if you have to pay someone to build boxes.
It far more reasonable to buy popular used speakers and sell them for 10% less in 6 months (minus shipping). There isn'the much of a market for used drivers either. And don'the be surprised if in 10+ year you have piles of drivers or past projects.
Most sound bad unless you drop money for Marchand.
But they allow you to try all sorts of combinations.
We have fun with diy and experimenting.
It can be pricy, especially if you have to pay someone to build boxes.
It far more reasonable to buy popular used speakers and sell them for 10% less in 6 months (minus shipping). There isn'the much of a market for used drivers either. And don'the be surprised if in 10+ year you have piles of drivers or past projects.
Yea, i'm waffling between the b102 plus morel, some magnepan mMG, and even betsy k drivers.
No matter what I try, i'll still think I should have tried the other.
A curse realy, eternally untested.
But at least I can yap, saying I don't like this because.........
Now if I could just forget about the stuff I shouldn'the have sold.
Live and learn I suppose.
No matter what I try, i'll still think I should have tried the other.
A curse realy, eternally untested.
But at least I can yap, saying I don't like this because.........
Now if I could just forget about the stuff I shouldn'the have sold.
Live and learn I suppose.
Not much scope to learn much beyond how to build a box of a certain size though and the OP is already an experienced woodworker.
To learn about xovers (active or passive) and how they affect the sound I'd suggest to start with a 2way. Pick a midwoofer you'd be happy to use as a midrange and once you got on top of that you can always add a proper woofer to make it a 3way.
Yup, this is definitely the right place to hash out my speaker building ideas!
So it is starting to gel. I'm thinking of approaching this endeavor from a few fronts. First, I want to continue the education process. I am currently reading the Master Handbook of Acoustics and I ordered Speaker Building 201. I will also continue scouring the Internet for ideas and reaching out to my new friends at diyaudio.
The DEQX purchase may take some time and I would like to build more of a knowledge base prior to this investment. I think I'll start with a more conventional first project and then insert the DEQX into the project once the foundation is established.
So I believe I'll go with the consensus and start with a two-way. I really like the NADA speaker kit from Madisound -premium drivers that I will keep in this speaker or use later on. Sticking with my dedication to never taking a conventional route, I want to go with a modular design. I will use the crossovers in the kit, but I will mount them in an accessible external module so that I can easily bypass them and go active when ready. I will go with the laminated layer cabinet which is key to my concept, but I will design it so that it can be used as a module to connect to a future bass cabinet, WATT/Puppy style. Critically, I want to build an easily removable front baffle so that the baffle can be changed to accommodate different drivers if (when) I am struck with the desire to make driver changes. I'm thinking of doing the baffle in a Corian type composite material -very dense and rigid but far easier to work with than aluminum. I have some old white Corian countertop that I've used for a bunch of projects and I'm familiar with working with it. So I think that might be the specifications for this project and a great place to start.
One bonus of doing a conventional two way is that it will make for a very interesting comparison. I have superb Raidho D1s and I also have B&W Nautulus 805s in another room. A shootout between the home brews (perhaps I'll call them JR NADAs), the Raidhos, and the B&Ws would be absolutely fascinating. I think the opportunity to do this comparison is reason enough to go with the two way to start.
I'll be sure to share this adventure. This should be fun....
So it is starting to gel. I'm thinking of approaching this endeavor from a few fronts. First, I want to continue the education process. I am currently reading the Master Handbook of Acoustics and I ordered Speaker Building 201. I will also continue scouring the Internet for ideas and reaching out to my new friends at diyaudio.
The DEQX purchase may take some time and I would like to build more of a knowledge base prior to this investment. I think I'll start with a more conventional first project and then insert the DEQX into the project once the foundation is established.
So I believe I'll go with the consensus and start with a two-way. I really like the NADA speaker kit from Madisound -premium drivers that I will keep in this speaker or use later on. Sticking with my dedication to never taking a conventional route, I want to go with a modular design. I will use the crossovers in the kit, but I will mount them in an accessible external module so that I can easily bypass them and go active when ready. I will go with the laminated layer cabinet which is key to my concept, but I will design it so that it can be used as a module to connect to a future bass cabinet, WATT/Puppy style. Critically, I want to build an easily removable front baffle so that the baffle can be changed to accommodate different drivers if (when) I am struck with the desire to make driver changes. I'm thinking of doing the baffle in a Corian type composite material -very dense and rigid but far easier to work with than aluminum. I have some old white Corian countertop that I've used for a bunch of projects and I'm familiar with working with it. So I think that might be the specifications for this project and a great place to start.
One bonus of doing a conventional two way is that it will make for a very interesting comparison. I have superb Raidho D1s and I also have B&W Nautulus 805s in another room. A shootout between the home brews (perhaps I'll call them JR NADAs), the Raidhos, and the B&Ws would be absolutely fascinating. I think the opportunity to do this comparison is reason enough to go with the two way to start.
I'll be sure to share this adventure. This should be fun....
Not yet, but I am set on it. It will definitely add another dimension to my project.
I'm fixated on the DEQX for my main system regardless of my speaker building progress. Therefore, no point in investing in something else.
I would strongly recommend getting a decent measurement system and a copy of Joe d'Appolito's "Testing Loudspeakers." This makes the design and optimization process much less random; doing a speaker project without the right tools is a sure path to spending piles of money and time, and most likely ending up with something that wasn't what you were hoping for. Joe's book will help you get good, valid, and useful data- understanding your tools is vital.
There's a lot of measurement options out there- for my current project, I'm using ARTA and VIRTINS with a sound card and a calibrated ICP mike, and CLIO Pocket. Very happy with both. I have an Omnic as well, and when it comes time to do a room setup, that will be my go-to. Any of those cost less than a RAAL ribbon.
There's a lot of measurement options out there- for my current project, I'm using ARTA and VIRTINS with a sound card and a calibrated ICP mike, and CLIO Pocket. Very happy with both. I have an Omnic as well, and when it comes time to do a room setup, that will be my go-to. Any of those cost less than a RAAL ribbon.
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