... until I tried to replace an audio source (from a HDMI Audio Extractor device, unbranded), with the analog audio output of a SKY HD receiver (available in the SCART socket).
The result was very disappointing, the audio level was about half of that delivered by the extractor.
I can compensate by increasing the volume on the amplifier driving the ceiling speakers (sports bar venue), but that don't seem to be the right thing to do, as the punters like it load during important footy matches.
If I've got to use pre-amplifiers, I'm not going to achieve anything by trying to remove what I thought was superfluous kit....
The audio out from the SKY box was not variable with the "Volume Controls" on the SKY remote. is there a way to boost it ?
TIA
The result was very disappointing, the audio level was about half of that delivered by the extractor.
I can compensate by increasing the volume on the amplifier driving the ceiling speakers (sports bar venue), but that don't seem to be the right thing to do, as the punters like it load during important footy matches.
If I've got to use pre-amplifiers, I'm not going to achieve anything by trying to remove what I thought was superfluous kit....
The audio out from the SKY box was not variable with the "Volume Controls" on the SKY remote. is there a way to boost it ?
TIA
Domestic (-10dBV) and professional (+4dBu) line-levels are different, which may be part of it, SCART seems to be defined to use high domestic levels (400 or 500mV rms). But individual equipment will vary anyway, and most power amplifiers will not reach max output with domestic line level in, a pre-amplifier is assumed.
Hi, do you mean that it does have RCA outputs with normal line level voltages? Well add a volume control and be done with it.
It would help to mention brand and type to avoid “car for sale, color red”.
I'm not sure if you've supplied a reasonable answer to my query, although you've sort of muddied the waters...
So, you are saying that "line-level" has a variance, that makes it not "line-level".
Please define "line-level" that works universally (if it indeed exists), or does everyone just go their own way.
I always thought "line-level" was 100mV pk to pk, and that "mic-level was 10mV pk to pk. Please correct me if I am wrong on those assumptions.
Your assumptions that SCART has a much higher level seems to counter what I have observed, it means that the HDMI audio extractors are pumping out twice mas much !!!
it seems my ability to "quote-reply" is limited, I'm new here....
answer to jean-paul....
The SKY box only has a SCART connector, no RCA outputs. I have made adapters from SCART to 3.5mm jack sockets, but the output I get is very low compared to the unbranded HDMI audio extractors.
I'm thinking that the (fairly cheap, to be honest), audio extractors are boosting the signal level, which works well in the venue. Perhaps the manufacturer thought that "more is better" IDK
answer to jean-paul....
The SKY box only has a SCART connector, no RCA outputs. I have made adapters from SCART to 3.5mm jack sockets, but the output I get is very low compared to the unbranded HDMI audio extractors.
I'm thinking that the (fairly cheap, to be honest), audio extractors are boosting the signal level, which works well in the venue. Perhaps the manufacturer thought that "more is better" IDK
Levels are given in RMS, not peak to peak, unless otherwise stated.
A new HD receiver with RCA outputs would solve matters isn't it?
Or use a cheap external DAC connected to its optical or coax SPDIF output. Most have standardized 2Vrms output levels.
Or use a cheap external DAC connected to its optical or coax SPDIF output. Most have standardized 2Vrms output levels.
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I used an op amp to boost iPhone output to match receiver. Yes it worked before but I wanted to use phone volume from time to time.
Not sure if I'm in the wrong boat, but I guess the "HDMI extractor" will take the digital data and convert it to analog using some built-in electronics, while the SCART directly provides an analog signal. I am not surprised the two are different.
That said, the analog output levels are not subject to a strict standard. When designing an amplifier, I'd personally assume something like 1...2 Vrms (sine) for max. input from the audio source. Others will think differently.
That said, the analog output levels are not subject to a strict standard. When designing an amplifier, I'd personally assume something like 1...2 Vrms (sine) for max. input from the audio source. Others will think differently.
Don't want to go to the extreme of changing the SKY HD boxes (yes, there are two).
A cheap external DAC is what we already have, the digital being extracted from the HDMI signal cable.
Anyway replacing those would defeat the object, which is to reduce the number of pieces of kit, and to free up a couple of mains power sockets.
The system was set-up over 5 years ago, and I'm recalling that the input stage of the amplifiers (Monocor) was modified to give variable gain. It's possible we can boost the input level there after connecting to the SCART audio. The bar staff have got pretty used to where the amplifier volume controls need to be for different circumstances, so ideally want to match that as much as possible. Plus I know that at maximum volume (it's plenty !!) the speakers are ok with the power.
Sometimes you’ve got to do what you’ve gotta do 😉
5 Years old means they’re antique just like SCART is antique.
FWIW I mentioned SPDIF by means of Toslink/coax not extracted from HDMI.
It still would be clever to mention the typenumber or post a picture of the back to get satisfying to the point answers. The “car for sale, color red” system is low in efficiency.
5 Years old means they’re antique just like SCART is antique.
FWIW I mentioned SPDIF by means of Toslink/coax not extracted from HDMI.
It still would be clever to mention the typenumber or post a picture of the back to get satisfying to the point answers. The “car for sale, color red” system is low in efficiency.
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Ahem, the Sky HD receivers back cover AND type number. Tech people speak of and recognize by type numbers just like car mechanics speak of Vauxhall Astra 1.7D so brand, type and engine type....An Astra 1.7D is very different from a Mokka 1.1 etc. Just suppose you would speak of your red car having some problem to a mechanic. Please guess what his/her first 3 questions are.
Car for sale, color red.
Car for sale, color red.
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Oops, sorry, thought you meant the extractors ....
These are Sky DRX595 receivers, all the info I have is here https://www.satshop.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/DRX595_specs.pdf
Anyway, I've just got off the phone with the guy who helped me out setting up the Monacor amplifiers to provide a variable gain on the Line-In, and I can now recall that I fitted 20-turn potentiometers to replace a fixed resistor on the pre-amp stage. It was 5+ years ago, so I'd forgotten how I'd done the mods. We should be good to go now, as I can boost the pre-amp gain to suit the SCART output level.
Thanks for your comments ....
These are Sky DRX595 receivers, all the info I have is here https://www.satshop.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/DRX595_specs.pdf
Anyway, I've just got off the phone with the guy who helped me out setting up the Monacor amplifiers to provide a variable gain on the Line-In, and I can now recall that I fitted 20-turn potentiometers to replace a fixed resistor on the pre-amp stage. It was 5+ years ago, so I'd forgotten how I'd done the mods. We should be good to go now, as I can boost the pre-amp gain to suit the SCART output level.
Thanks for your comments ....
How so? I would still need a DAC converter, and its associated power supply. I'm trying to reduce the number of power sockets in use. If I can match the SCART audio from the DRX595 to the input stage of the amplifier, I can dispense with the HDMI Audio extractors completely, freeing up the power sockets used by their PSU's
Well you seem to have solved the dilemma.
From a both practical and quality point of view and thinking out loud (we don’t know anything about the situation):
The external DAC would have 2Vrms and likely better sound quality for just 1 wall outlet position. Possibly less noise as well.
Amplifiers with Toslink inputs would also solve both the level and wall socket issues.
If there are not enough wall sockets adding a few is also a possibility.
From a both practical and quality point of view and thinking out loud (we don’t know anything about the situation):
The external DAC would have 2Vrms and likely better sound quality for just 1 wall outlet position. Possibly less noise as well.
Amplifiers with Toslink inputs would also solve both the level and wall socket issues.
If there are not enough wall sockets adding a few is also a possibility.
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I think the dilemma is already solved from the input matching I did many years ago. I'll have a play with it when I get the chance.
For practicality I need to reduce the number of wall outlets being used.
To put things into perspective, we already have, in a cramped space....
2 Sky HD boxes (we have a 2-zone system)
2 Monacor 100V line amplifiers
2 HDMI Audio Extractors, each with its own plug-in PSU
A speaker switching box to feed either Amplifier 1 or Amplifier 2 to both speaker zones, or separately to each zone
A CCTV DVR
A local monitor for the CCTV
The large power supply for the 16 CCTV cameras
A box that can play USB media, Bluetooth media, and a selected "Happy Birthday" song for when the cake comes out
Another box which I can't remember what it does : Just remembered, it controls the sky boxes remotely and separately using a RemoteXY app on the POS tablet. Used for channel selection etc. You can't "pair" the sky remotes to the boxes, so you have to cover the IR receiver window of the one you don't want to control.... all very messy !! My box sends the IR signals into the Sky boxes via the 10-pin DIN connectors.
That's a total of 12 double outlets, there is no room to add any more, so getting shot of 2 of them would be an advantage, because I've yet to add a control box that will fade down the house speakers when the jukebox starts playing....
I'm going there shortly, I can grab a photo of the area where all this kit lives, and you might see the problem first-hand. The area is under a set of stairs, and it doesn't help that they also use it as a stockroom for cases of beer, pop, boxes of crisps, nuts etc.
It's a nightmare that needs tidying up, to be honest, but getting shot of the Audio extractors would be a good start, one of them plays up occasionally anyway and has to be restarted to get it working again...
EDIT : Quality of sound is not an issue, it is, after all, a sports bar, not an audiophiles heaven, lol
For practicality I need to reduce the number of wall outlets being used.
To put things into perspective, we already have, in a cramped space....
2 Sky HD boxes (we have a 2-zone system)
2 Monacor 100V line amplifiers
2 HDMI Audio Extractors, each with its own plug-in PSU
A speaker switching box to feed either Amplifier 1 or Amplifier 2 to both speaker zones, or separately to each zone
A CCTV DVR
A local monitor for the CCTV
The large power supply for the 16 CCTV cameras
A box that can play USB media, Bluetooth media, and a selected "Happy Birthday" song for when the cake comes out
Another box which I can't remember what it does : Just remembered, it controls the sky boxes remotely and separately using a RemoteXY app on the POS tablet. Used for channel selection etc. You can't "pair" the sky remotes to the boxes, so you have to cover the IR receiver window of the one you don't want to control.... all very messy !! My box sends the IR signals into the Sky boxes via the 10-pin DIN connectors.
That's a total of 12 double outlets, there is no room to add any more, so getting shot of 2 of them would be an advantage, because I've yet to add a control box that will fade down the house speakers when the jukebox starts playing....
I'm going there shortly, I can grab a photo of the area where all this kit lives, and you might see the problem first-hand. The area is under a set of stairs, and it doesn't help that they also use it as a stockroom for cases of beer, pop, boxes of crisps, nuts etc.
It's a nightmare that needs tidying up, to be honest, but getting shot of the Audio extractors would be a good start, one of them plays up occasionally anyway and has to be restarted to get it working again...
EDIT : Quality of sound is not an issue, it is, after all, a sports bar, not an audiophiles heaven, lol
It sounds like your problem is essentially one of power distribution. By chance, I came across this thread:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/power-distributor-diy.415908/
This thread drew my attention to these power distribution blocks:
https://www.digikey.fr/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/2315256/2051177
https://www.digikey.fr/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/3273332/7596887
https://www.digikey.fr/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/3273334/7596890
https://www.digikey.fr/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/3273340/7596899
https://www.digikey.fr/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/3273330/7596884
https://www.digikey.fr/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/3273342/7596902
The datasheet indicates that they can be mounted by snapping onto a DIN rail adapter, direct mounting with flange, or free-hanging.
Three blocks could potentially power six devices and free up numerous mains sockets. However, although in a DIY setting one might be confident enough to find a way to use these blocks safely, I would be hesitant to suggest a DIY approach in the context of your bar. With all the equipment and associated wiring located in the cupboard under the stairs, which is also used to store beer and crisps, it sounds like you need help from a qualified electrician to be confident that you are not going to electrocute an employee.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/power-distributor-diy.415908/
This thread drew my attention to these power distribution blocks:
https://www.digikey.fr/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/2315256/2051177
https://www.digikey.fr/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/3273332/7596887
https://www.digikey.fr/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/3273334/7596890
https://www.digikey.fr/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/3273340/7596899
https://www.digikey.fr/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/3273330/7596884
https://www.digikey.fr/en/products/detail/phoenix-contact/3273342/7596902
The datasheet indicates that they can be mounted by snapping onto a DIN rail adapter, direct mounting with flange, or free-hanging.
Three blocks could potentially power six devices and free up numerous mains sockets. However, although in a DIY setting one might be confident enough to find a way to use these blocks safely, I would be hesitant to suggest a DIY approach in the context of your bar. With all the equipment and associated wiring located in the cupboard under the stairs, which is also used to store beer and crisps, it sounds like you need help from a qualified electrician to be confident that you are not going to electrocute an employee.
