Hi All. Ever since they came out I have loved the Realistic Electrostat 2a. However they were too thin sounding for my liking. I found a pair locally and decided it was a good time to start experimenting with them. Here is my plan.
I'm going to keep the stat tweeters of course, but in the center of them I am going to install a JBL 6x6 waveguide powered by the ADS1001 compression driver for midrange. I am then going to use the Dayton 8" woofer that will go down to 27hz.
To get the proper size for the woof to go down that low I will extend the existing cabs out the back by 5.5" which will give me 2.21 cu ft internal.
Crossover points will be dictated by the ADS1001 so woof to mid = 1200hz-ish, mid to stats = 7khz-ish.
Some of the issues is the supper high efficiency of the mid horn and the low efficiency of the woof and stats, and the ac/dc power supply of the stats.
As some of you know, I've been building speakers for a very long time but always used more comparable drivers and simple crossovers.
This project, if done right, could go from 27hz out past 20khz in a small cab and have the clean and detailed sound in the mid horn and the crystal clear sound of the stats.
I've attached the data sheets for the woof and the compression driver and the scheem for the exiting electrostat set up.
I appreciate all the help I can get because I am way over my head on this one!!!
I have to link to the ADS1001 because the file is too big.
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/290-525--eminence-asd-1001-spec-sheet.pdf
I'm going to keep the stat tweeters of course, but in the center of them I am going to install a JBL 6x6 waveguide powered by the ADS1001 compression driver for midrange. I am then going to use the Dayton 8" woofer that will go down to 27hz.
To get the proper size for the woof to go down that low I will extend the existing cabs out the back by 5.5" which will give me 2.21 cu ft internal.
Crossover points will be dictated by the ADS1001 so woof to mid = 1200hz-ish, mid to stats = 7khz-ish.
Some of the issues is the supper high efficiency of the mid horn and the low efficiency of the woof and stats, and the ac/dc power supply of the stats.
As some of you know, I've been building speakers for a very long time but always used more comparable drivers and simple crossovers.
This project, if done right, could go from 27hz out past 20khz in a small cab and have the clean and detailed sound in the mid horn and the crystal clear sound of the stats.
I've attached the data sheets for the woof and the compression driver and the scheem for the exiting electrostat set up.
I appreciate all the help I can get because I am way over my head on this one!!!
I have to link to the ADS1001 because the file is too big.
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/290-525--eminence-asd-1001-spec-sheet.pdf
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I strongly recommend going active here. Without extensive measurements from you, people will have nothing to truly go on, with active you can have a lot more flexibility.
Are you sure you want to run a 6x6 horn to 1200hz? The driver will be fine but the horn will not perform great near XO. I might try this with a cone driver instead and try a crossover similar to some of these solutions.
Duelund and Beyond
Are you sure you want to run a 6x6 horn to 1200hz? The driver will be fine but the horn will not perform great near XO. I might try this with a cone driver instead and try a crossover similar to some of these solutions.
Duelund and Beyond
I don't have the amps to active B. but I do have boxes of crossover parts I'm hoping to use. You make a good point about measuring the components and I will do that as they arrive. I have the stats so I can measure them soon and the ADS1001 are packed away from out move. I'll start looking for them tomorrow....I have the day off.
Looking at the spec sheet for the woofer I can move the crossover point up considerably to match better with the ADS.
I'm going to place the order for the woofs this weekend. I want to use the horn just because it has the speed and clarity I don't hear in cone or dome mids......my ears only.
Looking at the spec sheet for the woofer I can move the crossover point up considerably to match better with the ADS.
I'm going to place the order for the woofs this weekend. I want to use the horn just because it has the speed and clarity I don't hear in cone or dome mids......my ears only.
The hard thing is that what you're proposing is pretty much guaranteed to work out poorly. The arrayed stats will not likely play nicely with the horn in the middle, there will be substantial interference patterns. The horn/tweeter combo wants to be XO'd at 2.5kHz or therabouts, so you'd probably be only using it for a 1-2khz bandwidth, even though the driver can probably do 1200 with a steep filter.
Perhaps try the horn rear-firing or even upfiring or sidefiring, just as an ambience piece? That would alleviate much of the concern, as you'd only need a simple sloped high pass, and would not suffer from the interference patterns the same way, and you could focus on the "simpler" matter of crossing a cone to electrostatic tweeters.
I'd be inclined to start with a measurement of the tweeters alone, and then see what it takes to match the woofer to that- normal crossover simulation won't do the trick for electrostats.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just that it's going to be very difficult for anyone to help with getting decent integration, without the units in hand (and probably even with).
Are you dedicated to keeping that enclosure? Changing the layout of the stats could make the integration of a horn as a "lower tweeter" more viable.
Perhaps try the horn rear-firing or even upfiring or sidefiring, just as an ambience piece? That would alleviate much of the concern, as you'd only need a simple sloped high pass, and would not suffer from the interference patterns the same way, and you could focus on the "simpler" matter of crossing a cone to electrostatic tweeters.
I'd be inclined to start with a measurement of the tweeters alone, and then see what it takes to match the woofer to that- normal crossover simulation won't do the trick for electrostats.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just that it's going to be very difficult for anyone to help with getting decent integration, without the units in hand (and probably even with).
Are you dedicated to keeping that enclosure? Changing the layout of the stats could make the integration of a horn as a "lower tweeter" more viable.
That makes sense B. if I understand you, the sound coming from the 4 stats in a square will interfere with the horn in the center and visa versa. The 4a is the same as the 2a but with a midrange driver in the center of the horns. The existing crossover point for the 2a from the woof to the stats is 5k. so the stats don't go down that low to begin with.
I might put the horn in the center and disconnect the one below the horn and the ones to the left and right of the horn and see what that sounds like. Before I do that I'll measure all the drivers.
I don't think integrating the woof with the horn will be that big of a deal so not worried about that right now.
I might put the horn in the center and disconnect the one below the horn and the ones to the left and right of the horn and see what that sounds like. Before I do that I'll measure all the drivers.
I don't think integrating the woof with the horn will be that big of a deal so not worried about that right now.
Djn, you always fly by the seat of your pants when it comes to speakers, and you typically convey your listening experiences in a phenomenological way (e.g. sounds thin, etc.). I honestly don't think that there is much advice that anyone can give you - just jump in and try something. Use your box of parts and try to put something together, then report back about what you "hear".
I've grown Charlie!!! For my last speaker build I bought a omni mic and built the crossover using a simple crossover program then measured and tweaked them using measurements.
Rearrange the layout and you might be cooking with something- You'll still need a high crossover point for the horn, and the stats as a supertweeter, but you can put the stats side by side- 2 wide, 2 tall, and you could wind up with an interesting system (with very narrow dispersion).
Before a crossover can be designed the layout must be, and everything needs to be measured on-cab. There's no shortcutting possible with a funky system.
Are you completely dedicated to keeping the cabs?
+1 on this advice. Except for the lowest frequencies, the cabinet and layout geometry (via the diffraction off edges, etc) will influence the frequency response and on and off axis. Its best to think about how to set everything up before hand (modeling can help you make informed choices at this stage), then you build and install the drivers, and THEN you make your measurements. This approach insures you have data that accurately captures the sound coming from each driver. The crossover is then designed to best stitch everything together, using drivers in their "best" ranges, and making sure where drivers overlap at the crossover point goes smoothly and does not cause any problems.
I am just a dabbler when it comes to diy but I have had some Realistic 2a and they are fun and have potential. IMO I would nix the horn idea and instead put a fuller range driver in amongst the the 4 tweeters using them as sorta an off axis addendum to the centered fuller range driver. Woofer wise, an Anarchy woofer might do the trick in lieu of the Realstic one.
I'm not really tied to those cabs they are just what I have to work with. After reading these posts what I think I'll do is remove the stats from the cabs and use a bigger horn in there place then put the stats on a narrow board one above the other so 4 stats tall on top on the cab.
But first I will take measurements of all the drivers individually in that configuration and go from there.
But first I will take measurements of all the drivers individually in that configuration and go from there.
But first things first. We moved to Albuquerque 2 years ago and have been using what is to be my listening room for storage. My two son in laws are coming over tomorrow and we are going to all that stuff in the garage so I can set up my listening room.
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Sounds like a plan. I'd be interested in what band these tweeters play well. I'd be trying them with a higher order of filter to extend this..
Nice AlNiCos 😉
Nice AlNiCos 😉
I'm not sure what you mean by "higher order of filter to extend this". My plan is to take the Xover out of the equation and measure them full open. I set the 4 stats up in a number of configurations and measure frequencies and Polaris for each configuration.
I like to measure tweeters full open too. Whether I should? However, will you arc the stats if you overdrive them?
Some measurements after diaphragm replacement were posted over in the Planar forum.
Crossing over above 3kHz is advisable.
HELP! Low tweeter output, hybrid esl, Post#32
HELP! Low tweeter output, hybrid esl, Post#13
The first thing you'll likely have to fix is not speakers etc but quite likely the garage door rattling.
So' I have 10 4x8x2 sheets of sound absorbent material and 40 square feet of bass traps and wondering if I should set up a small space with all that to measure all the drivers or should I just do it outside?
Also what smoothing should i use? Thanks and have a great memorial day.
Also what smoothing should i use? Thanks and have a great memorial day.
I found treasures while cleaning out my listening room of all our storage. Here is the new plan. These 10" woods that I ordered already, these horns I ordered last year along with these tymphany compression drivers. I also found two pair of eWave crossover boards.
I'll use those boards for the woof and horn then go to the original stat boards for the stat......or something like that.
I'll use those boards for the woof and horn then go to the original stat boards for the stat......or something like that.
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