Just now did. I'm impressed. Between reading about the BIB and this I now have some respect for full range speakers. Maybe even a little interest in playing around with them some.
-Chris
Need to be careful here, even 1" can have adverse effects.
If you were to use mdf, use 3/4' with bracing.
That said, the "new" mdf on the shelves at box stores looks awful these days. Might want to consider other sources, or special order better grades.
Of course 16+ layer Russian Baltic Birch plywood is easy to find and highly recommended.
Also saw the active setup ploy, yes absolutely!!
If you were to use mdf, use 3/4' with bracing.
That said, the "new" mdf on the shelves at box stores looks awful these days. Might want to consider other sources, or special order better grades.
Of course 16+ layer Russian Baltic Birch plywood is easy to find and highly recommended.
Also saw the active setup ploy, yes absolutely!!
Last edited:
I will definitely make sure the internal dimensions and volume are just what is designed. Now that I understand more about baffle edge diffraction I'll also try not to change the outer size and shape.
So, all that probably does mean I need to find a source for good plywood in my area. I've done some internet searching before and didn't come up with much within 45 minutes of home. I also have a transportation problem as I drive a Mustang. My wife has a mid sized SUV but it won't hold a full sheet of plywood.
With MDF it doesn't bother me to have Home depot or Lowes rip it into 4 rough pieces and have a good bit of waste. I usually find use for some of the cutoffs as jigs and such. But I would really like to be more precise with expensive plywood. Probably just means I need to buy several sheets at once so I can borrow a truck.
I've been reading more discussion about material choices and I understand the reasons for using void free plywood much better now. And I definitely don't want to spend a bunch on nice drivers then screw everything up by compromising on the cabinet material.
-Chris
Don't count on lowes or home depot to be a source for quality ply. Even their best is generally pretty terrible stuff, with underapplied/underperforming adhesives, voids, and whatnot. Naturally the quality of their workers varies widely too, and the saws are often poorly maintained.
Find a proper lumberyard that carries Baltic birch, and call them in advance, asking if you can have them do more cuts than usual, so you wind up with usable panel sizes on the output. Make it convenient for them- set it up in advance so you're not walking in with a surprise PITA. Be sure to talk with the guy doing the cutting, and offer some nominal cutting fee. Most places will have a pretty decent set of saws set up and you can get things done well with minimal effort if you have a clearly printed cutsheet. The key is to make sure that the person cutting for you cares about the quality of the output and has the time to take to do it carefully.
Find a proper lumberyard that carries Baltic birch, and call them in advance, asking if you can have them do more cuts than usual, so you wind up with usable panel sizes on the output. Make it convenient for them- set it up in advance so you're not walking in with a surprise PITA. Be sure to talk with the guy doing the cutting, and offer some nominal cutting fee. Most places will have a pretty decent set of saws set up and you can get things done well with minimal effort if you have a clearly printed cutsheet. The key is to make sure that the person cutting for you cares about the quality of the output and has the time to take to do it carefully.
IScream, did you check the shelving section?
3/4 in. x 11-1/4 in. x 8 ft. Bullnose Shelving MDF Board-13697 - The Home Depot
Check the smaller lumber yards (non-chain stores) some will have 12" and 16" boards like above (better grade mdf).
3/4 in. x 11-1/4 in. x 8 ft. Bullnose Shelving MDF Board-13697 - The Home Depot
Check the smaller lumber yards (non-chain stores) some will have 12" and 16" boards like above (better grade mdf).
I'm not having any trouble getting MDF that seems to be decent quality. I just built a subwoofer enclosure from 3/4" MDF over the weekend and will be building a second this coming weekend.
It's quality plywood that I need to find in my area. But I've only searched online so far. Haven't called anywhere yet.
Thanks,
Chris
Chris,
Check around for smaller stores that supply fine hardwood (real wood not just laminates) for flooring, cabinets, home builders, etc. In addition to hardwood they often carry better grade plywood and MDF than the Lowe's and Home Depot big box stores. In the Cookeville/Baxter, TN area we have Winell Lee with a retail store in Cookeville where I live.
Jim Griffin
Check around for smaller stores that supply fine hardwood (real wood not just laminates) for flooring, cabinets, home builders, etc. In addition to hardwood they often carry better grade plywood and MDF than the Lowe's and Home Depot big box stores. In the Cookeville/Baxter, TN area we have Winell Lee with a retail store in Cookeville where I live.
Jim Griffin
FWIW, my local Lowes, HD commercial desk, along with the Wickes, 84 Lumber stores that preceded them, have historically ordered proper BB, Apple, marine, ply through their various distributors along with most any other product not sold in their stores, but available to them, though of course cost may be higher than what someone in another area may pay that stocks them, i.e. the last 11 & 13 mm BB ply I ordered some years ago now cost me a ~22% premium, but when only the best will do combined with no other cost effective way to get it.............
GM
GM
I grabbed a sheet of 3/4" MDF from Home Depot tonight and asked the guy if they can order in nice plywood. He didn't have any idea and told me I would have to check back with the pro-desk people during the day. Pretty much expected that but still thought I would ask while I was there.
Since starting this thread I decided on JRiver Media Center running on my desktop PC for my active crossover and DSP needs. I bought a MiniDSP U-DAC8 D to A converter with 8 channels and got it up and running today with a new 15" sealed sub I built over the last couple weekends. I'll be building a second sub just like it starting tomorrow.
I've been reading a bunch of threads and checking out well known DIY designs around the internet. And I think I've changed my mind about starting with the classic 3-way using Scanspeak Discovery drivers. I think what I want to do is start by building a bass module kind of thing, like the bottom section of the Tarkus DIY speakers.
I'm thinking of 2 10" drivers per side or a single 12" per side. Could any of you suggest some 10" or 12" drivers I might be able to pick up for around $250 total? The Peerless SLS in the Tarkus seems a little subwoofery to me with a 29Hz F3. The Dayton Audio DS315 looks interesting at $150 for two 12's. But I just don't know what else is out there.
What I would like to do is crossover from my subwoofers around 50 to 60 Hz then over to mid range at about 300 Hz. I would like to stay with sealed enclosures for now but I can go fairly large with the volume, like at least 3 cubic feet.
Aside from driver recommendations, is there anything just plain dumb about this idea? I know a couple of you guys have been commenting in my thread in the subwoofer forum. Hopefully I won't annoy you too much by asking pretty similar questions in this thread.
Thanks,
Chris
I've been reading a bunch of threads and checking out well known DIY designs around the internet. And I think I've changed my mind about starting with the classic 3-way using Scanspeak Discovery drivers. I think what I want to do is start by building a bass module kind of thing, like the bottom section of the Tarkus DIY speakers.
I'm thinking of 2 10" drivers per side or a single 12" per side. Could any of you suggest some 10" or 12" drivers I might be able to pick up for around $250 total? The Peerless SLS in the Tarkus seems a little subwoofery to me with a 29Hz F3. The Dayton Audio DS315 looks interesting at $150 for two 12's. But I just don't know what else is out there.
What I would like to do is crossover from my subwoofers around 50 to 60 Hz then over to mid range at about 300 Hz. I would like to stay with sealed enclosures for now but I can go fairly large with the volume, like at least 3 cubic feet.
Aside from driver recommendations, is there anything just plain dumb about this idea? I know a couple of you guys have been commenting in my thread in the subwoofer forum. Hopefully I won't annoy you too much by asking pretty similar questions in this thread.
Thanks,
Chris
Hi Chris.
Let me suggest something: as you want to keep your cabinet sealed and looking for 12" or 10" why not take a look at some professional PA speakers?
There's a big offer of pro drivers which could fullfill your requirements. Don't be afraid of the PA thing versus hifi: usually these PA drivers are quite goods (given you use them in theyr safe operation range: don't run them too high or too low) and have some great advantage about sensibility. And you could find they're fair priced too given theyr quality.
Specifications could suggest you they are not supposed to work in sealed enclosure but as you'll use active dsp you can use them sealed using an LT (Linkwitz Transform: http://sound.westhost.com/linkwitz-transform.htm ) to adapt them to your need.
just take a look there too have an idea of offer:
US SPEAKER PARTS - Speakers, Speaker Cabinets, Guitar speakers, Bass speakers, , Woofers, HF Drivers, speaker upgrades and replacement speakers. Eminence Speaker, JBL speakers, 18 Sound, B&C, EV, Tannoy, Peavey, Celestion, RCF, Jensen, Beyma, Fane, P
And it opens new way for your choice for high freq too: have you heard about the SEOS or econowave?
It's a whole paradigm shift compared to your original choice but it may be worth.
here's some links to give you impression and exemple:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...dsp-constant-directivity-vs-dipole-study.html
Fusion-12 Tempest DIY Sound Group
These are example but you could find many variation on the same principle here or on other forums.
Let me suggest something: as you want to keep your cabinet sealed and looking for 12" or 10" why not take a look at some professional PA speakers?
There's a big offer of pro drivers which could fullfill your requirements. Don't be afraid of the PA thing versus hifi: usually these PA drivers are quite goods (given you use them in theyr safe operation range: don't run them too high or too low) and have some great advantage about sensibility. And you could find they're fair priced too given theyr quality.
Specifications could suggest you they are not supposed to work in sealed enclosure but as you'll use active dsp you can use them sealed using an LT (Linkwitz Transform: http://sound.westhost.com/linkwitz-transform.htm ) to adapt them to your need.
just take a look there too have an idea of offer:
US SPEAKER PARTS - Speakers, Speaker Cabinets, Guitar speakers, Bass speakers, , Woofers, HF Drivers, speaker upgrades and replacement speakers. Eminence Speaker, JBL speakers, 18 Sound, B&C, EV, Tannoy, Peavey, Celestion, RCF, Jensen, Beyma, Fane, P
And it opens new way for your choice for high freq too: have you heard about the SEOS or econowave?
It's a whole paradigm shift compared to your original choice but it may be worth.
here's some links to give you impression and exemple:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...dsp-constant-directivity-vs-dipole-study.html
Fusion-12 Tempest DIY Sound Group
These are example but you could find many variation on the same principle here or on other forums.
Last edited:
Thanks, krivium.
At the moment I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed by the choices. I've done some searching and reading about normal hifi 10's and 12's in basic enclosures. Not even close to making a decision right now.
I won't quite get this second subwoofer done today but it will be far enough along that I can mount the driver and wire it up tomorrow night. Then I'll position both of them in different places around the room and run some sweeps to see where I get the best response before any EQ.
So right now I'm going to work on getting REW, and stuff like Spotify, to play through the JRiver ASIO driver and my microphone hooked into REW. After that I'm going to do some reading on what software I can use to measure phase alignment since that's the main thing I don't get with REW using my USB mic.
Once I get back into thinking about the mid bass modules I want to read up a little on the possibility of doing side mounted push pull with a couple 10's per modules. I just don't know what frequency range I could reproduce with that setup and have it sound right. I'm guessing that it's closely tied to baffle step frequency range and, once I'm below that lowest frequency, it doesn't matter too much where the drivers are pointed since the sound energy radiates in all directions equally.
But that would put my desired 60Hz - 300Hz frequency range right in the steepest part of the baffle step curve. So side mounted push pull is probably not a good idea but I'm sure there's plenty I don't understand about it.
My dilemma is that I know I need to learn a lot more but I want some damn mid bass right now. I keep thinking how bad can I really screw up four 10" drivers that measure and model well in a front firing sealed enclosure.
-Chris
At the moment I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed by the choices. I've done some searching and reading about normal hifi 10's and 12's in basic enclosures. Not even close to making a decision right now.
I won't quite get this second subwoofer done today but it will be far enough along that I can mount the driver and wire it up tomorrow night. Then I'll position both of them in different places around the room and run some sweeps to see where I get the best response before any EQ.
So right now I'm going to work on getting REW, and stuff like Spotify, to play through the JRiver ASIO driver and my microphone hooked into REW. After that I'm going to do some reading on what software I can use to measure phase alignment since that's the main thing I don't get with REW using my USB mic.
Once I get back into thinking about the mid bass modules I want to read up a little on the possibility of doing side mounted push pull with a couple 10's per modules. I just don't know what frequency range I could reproduce with that setup and have it sound right. I'm guessing that it's closely tied to baffle step frequency range and, once I'm below that lowest frequency, it doesn't matter too much where the drivers are pointed since the sound energy radiates in all directions equally.
But that would put my desired 60Hz - 300Hz frequency range right in the steepest part of the baffle step curve. So side mounted push pull is probably not a good idea but I'm sure there's plenty I don't understand about it.
My dilemma is that I know I need to learn a lot more but I want some damn mid bass right now. I keep thinking how bad can I really screw up four 10" drivers that measure and model well in a front firing sealed enclosure.
-Chris
- Status
- Not open for further replies.