How dare you come out and post something like this!!!!
Common sense cables...
Where is my damn nitro...I feel chest pains... Tone controls... We don't need no damn tone controls.
critofur said:
If speaker cable difference can be heard though a pair of Bose 301, I would say the difference is significant. Man, is this the season of the rising dead.
"If speaker cable difference can be heard though a pair of Bose 301, I would say the difference is significant. "
It would be a miracle to tell male from female vocals through a pair of 301s.
It would be a miracle to tell male from female vocals through a pair of 301s.
Wow, just wow. I've heard comments like "If you can't here a difference immediately after swapping cables, you should leave this hobby". Wow. I'm not saying there is no difference. I just can't hear it. How come many attack the blind listening test? "Oh it's proven to be biased". Wow. Any interest in making an unbiased listening test? It seems many insist that their hearing acuity is only accurate when they know which cables are plugged in. ...yet they close their eyes when performing their critical listening. It seems that the eyes aren't neccessary, just the knowledge of what product they're listening to. Does psychology not enter the equation?? I know that anything I build "sounds way better" than other stuff. The fact is, there's some psychology there. I've been to many listening tests and the the best observations are made after a little wine has flowed. Isn't the scientific endeavour the romantic part of what we do, or does myticism, incense, and nautilus shaped shells drive this hobby. If what we hear is beyond instrumentation, we could still develop proof through repeatable experimentation. I don't want to know what cable I could consistently identify, until after the experiment
mrshow4u,
I don't know how to break this you... but, you're not nuts. Are you sure you want to be here?
I don't know how to break this you... but, you're not nuts. Are you sure you want to be here?
Poobah, I don't mind being the heretic. Nothing new for me. I guess I'm looking for a fight.
...It's just a weird combination of engineering (amp, fire, arccing, heat) and superstition. I love the excitement of theories being realized, but part of the discipline of invention is careful qualification. This makes the progress all the more satisfying. I have lot's of protective gear for any ensuing food fights.
...It's just a weird combination of engineering (amp, fire, arccing, heat) and superstition. I love the excitement of theories being realized, but part of the discipline of invention is careful qualification. This makes the progress all the more satisfying. I have lot's of protective gear for any ensuing food fights.
Hello,
This is amazing how peaceful this thread is if we think about one of the most contoversial topics in the world of audio community.
I have a question about one type of interconnect cable where two wires are run independently like suggested for Gaincard by its maker. Did anyone try this and would like to share the opinion?
This is amazing how peaceful this thread is if we think about one of the most contoversial topics in the world of audio community.
I have a question about one type of interconnect cable where two wires are run independently like suggested for Gaincard by its maker. Did anyone try this and would like to share the opinion?
sorry Poobah, you're minutes too late. I just rubbed ommelette over my interconnects and I must say, they sound eggy
Well... I may have been late. But, so are the whackos. They are waiting in the wings... with their 200 dB SNR ears.
The thing that amazes me most about this topic is that the "Believers", as I refer to them, refuse to take part in finding out the truth. All it takes is a $10 switch and someone else to switch it for you. I questioned it, got ribbed on another forum, so I bought a switch and found out for myself.
On a related topic, I can't buy into the whole "burn in" thing for wire. However, there is one thing I don't understand that is similar. In computer centers, their network cables must be changed on a periodic basis, and a network cable can stop working without having been touched or otherwise moved. What causes this?
On a related topic, I can't buy into the whole "burn in" thing for wire. However, there is one thing I don't understand that is similar. In computer centers, their network cables must be changed on a periodic basis, and a network cable can stop working without having been touched or otherwise moved. What causes this?
99.9 percent of the time...
...People who "hear" a difference in cables...
Are the ones who don't like "blind tests".
Funny coincidence there, eh? 😱
...People who "hear" a difference in cables...
Are the ones who don't like "blind tests".
Funny coincidence there, eh? 😱
Temperature change, oxidation, slight differences in the power/reliability of the networking equipment the cables are plugged into. And how could you be so sure that they weren't touched at all? Oh, and if the connector of the cable and the connector it's plugged into are different types of metal then there will be an electro-chemical reaction going on there which should eventually cause failure.johninCR said:
I have a 100' cable plugged into a wireless router, it's working fine now but on another hub it often didn't work sometimes, I beleive because the hub was just not quite powerful enough.
The IT guys participating in audio forums...
Seriously... IT cables rely on "insulation displacement"... there can be issues in humid environments... really, they are nothing more than jacked-up phone cords.
More likely... somebody overloaded a server... or tried some experiment with the firewall... and had the new kid check cables until he found an excuse for a mysterious problem...
I got the network cable info from a friend (computer geed not an audio guy) who works in a hosting facility. My first response was that cables are moved, staples put through them, etc. and he insists no. If it was oxidation of the connectors, then using contact sprays and the like would be much more economical. Yes, I've experienced the finicky nature of network cables too, but that's an either it works or doesn't work issue not one that changes over time.
The oxidations and loss of contact pressure occur over time. It's not the connector to connector joint... the IDC joints break down.
Also... price pressure on cable can cause issues. Low purity copper (I'm not talking about the OFC audiophool stuff... just the stuff with rocks in it), from fung u cabble komphany, running right over an AC unit in the dropped ceiling...
🙂
Also... price pressure on cable can cause issues. Low purity copper (I'm not talking about the OFC audiophool stuff... just the stuff with rocks in it), from fung u cabble komphany, running right over an AC unit in the dropped ceiling...
🙂
Re: 99.9 percent of the time...
I'm the 0.1%, as usual.
Been there, done that. And my goofing on Home Depot Orange cables seems to have resonated with some people.
critofur said:
I'm the 0.1%, as usual.
Been there, done that. And my goofing on Home Depot Orange cables seems to have resonated with some people.
I must make a confession here. Just for grins I tried some high dollar cables both speaker cables and interconnect cables only because I could borrow them instead of shelling out my hard earned cash. Working for a shop has some advantages once in a while.
I looked at the venture with interest to see if I could manage to tell a difference in performance as measured with test equipment.
I conducted various tests with the interconnect cables and found there wasn't any increase in performance. I moved on to the listening tests with the aid of a helper to conduct blind tests aka
A/B tests and have come to the conclusion that the improvements if any are in the mind of the listener. The biggest speaker cable improvement I had was when I used 22ga mic line as speaker cable and then moved to some commercial 12ga wire. In this test that was still an A/B test I heard a marked improvement. There was a very very slight difference in how the high dollar speaker cables could color the sound. I feel this is totally due to the differences in capacitence and inductance of the cables.
I feel that 12ga of a good quality will provide ample satisfaction to most people as a means of obtaining a quality low cost cable.
In the interconnect corner I favor cables that are of the $20-30 dollar variety only because they are slightly better than the OEM cables that come out of a CD player shipping box.
I looked at the venture with interest to see if I could manage to tell a difference in performance as measured with test equipment.
I conducted various tests with the interconnect cables and found there wasn't any increase in performance. I moved on to the listening tests with the aid of a helper to conduct blind tests aka
A/B tests and have come to the conclusion that the improvements if any are in the mind of the listener. The biggest speaker cable improvement I had was when I used 22ga mic line as speaker cable and then moved to some commercial 12ga wire. In this test that was still an A/B test I heard a marked improvement. There was a very very slight difference in how the high dollar speaker cables could color the sound. I feel this is totally due to the differences in capacitence and inductance of the cables.
I feel that 12ga of a good quality will provide ample satisfaction to most people as a means of obtaining a quality low cost cable.
In the interconnect corner I favor cables that are of the $20-30 dollar variety only because they are slightly better than the OEM cables that come out of a CD player shipping box.
I haven't said, yet, that there aren't differences in cable. There are just ways to apply a good choice in cabling. If I do this, I cannot discern a sonic difference. For phono, low capacitance, low microphonic (stable mechanical structure), well shielded cable. Line level: maybe the easiest bridge to cross! Good shielding. Speakers: Mr Ohm is large and in charge here. If you want your amp to look like a voltage source. Enough gauge to minimize IR drops. The more it looks like pure resistance, the better. The shorter the run, the better. .....with no magic lumps on the cable (box of inductors and capacitors). Any frequency manipulation being done in the speaker wires is bass ackwards. Do that in your driver/crossover/pre-amp. Having said that. In some way, I want to prove the "beleivers" correct. I am just asking for a more scientific way of getting it done. Geez, people build amps here. They've got to be verifying their work with that. Shouldn't that be done with cables?
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