I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

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#763
Hi,

does anyone know a cheap supply of silver cable for internal wiring,
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Keeping in mind that the cheapest is probably not the best for audio , it just isn't pure enough, here's some sources where you can buy silver wire in various diameters and insulation materials:

AUDIOSYNTHESIS

Audionote UK is selling the same wires and finisged products of their own.

If you don't mind buying from outside the U.K, here's where most of the raw materials come from :

DESKADEL

The Kapton (ML) insulation needs to be scaped of carefully at the slodering ends but after that it will remain as is due to its airtight insulator.
PTFE tubing can be had in various sizes from RS Components among a raft of other sources.

Hope this helps, 😉
 
#765
Hi,

I used to buy silver, about 99.9% pure.
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It's commonly accepted that a good conductor should be as chemically pure as possible.
99.9% (3N) really isn't good enough. No idea what it would sound like though. We try to use 99.99% or better (4N to 6N).

3N Ag would probably be available from jewellers but I wouldn't waste my money on it even if it's relatively cheap.

If you trawl the internet for sources you'll quite likely hit some cheaper sources of preinsulated (even PTFE) solid core Ag wire in the U.S..
You'll still have to get that to the U.K. though which inevitably adds to the cost....


Cheers,😉
 
#766
carlosfm said:
Guys, there's an important issue here.:att'n:

You will never know what's on the disc.
You will never know if you are reproducing it as faithfully as it was recorded.
Because of the manufacturing process, even the producer doesn't know what's really on the final, released disc.

There's no way of knowing, because there's no perfect replay chain.
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As with everything, the issue is one of degree, not absolutes.

It is possible for some of us to either do our own recordings, or to be present during the entire commercial recording process, and/or to have access to the originally recorded master tape(s).

All this does is to provide a reasonably good anchor, a solid point of reference.

The more you know about this sort of thing, the better your chance of knowing what your system is or is not doing...

Again, it is a matter of degree - the range being from "no idea whatsoever" to "a high degree of certainty."

Me, I try to get "a high degree of certainty" if at all possible.

_-_-bear
 
#768
KevinLee said:
If you do not believe that cables make a difference then it would only be logical that you probably also believe that a $99.00 CD player sounds the same as a $1000.00 CD player. (Using the same tricky listening test you described in your initial post)

The truth is, if you hook a $1000.00 CD player to your amp with a $2.00 interconnect, it probably will sound like a $99.00 player.

Either you are a not as open minded as most of the DIYers on this forum or you have sub standard hearing...
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No. A CD player is FAR FAR more complex device than a simple cable. If you take a few feet of basic 12 guage copper speaker cable the signal going in one end will be 99.? % the same coming out the ohter end. How many 9s are in the .? % I wonder? 99.99% perhaps? Now, maybe most people wouldn't notice, or wouldn't care about the difference between a $99 and a $1,000 CD player but I'd bet you that even between two different $1,000 CD players the difference will be greater than any improvement of ANY speaker connector, regardless of price, over basic copper cable.

Well tested and proven fact: Listener bias is typically more significant than the actual difference between different cables ~ I.E. when there is a difference the significance will most likely be miniscule compared to other factors such as your speakers and your room.
 
#769
I have no intention of reading the first 77 pages of this discussion, but I thought someone might be interested in my experience with wires.

I have several sets of audiophile interconnects ( Kimber PBJ, Meitner Cryogenic, Cardas 300B Microtwin, Cardas Neutral Reference, etc). I also have inexpensive but well-made interconnects from Sony, AR, Monster THX, and Radio Shack.

IMO the audiophile cables were better than the inexpensive cables. I was using the embarrassingly expensive Cardas Neutral Ref's between my CDP and Pre, and from pre to power. Until recently... when I ordered a pair of Impact Acoustics SonicWaves.

They are inexpensive but well designed and executed, snug connectors, oxygen free silver coated copper, double shielded. As far as I can tell, they don't do anything to the sound at all, which is ideal IMP, and I no longer use anything else. I went from $500 audiophile cables to $20 cables, not because of anything to do with cost. I prefer the SonicWaves because they're totally honest (as opposed to the Neutra Ref's which have a glorious top end at the expense of ill-defined bass.

I also use SonicWave glass Toslinks on my CDP and sub cables (in my audio system). I intend to buy their new 10ga speaker cables.

This is the article that first attracted my attention. http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/SonicWaveCable.php
All the usual disclaimers, I have nothing to do with manufacture, sale etc. Just a fan.

http://www.impactacoustics.com/categories.asp?cat_id=800
 
#770
Hi Audiobomber, at the risk of getting holy hell unleashed on me.... ....I'm right there with you. I did an experiment setting out to prove there was a difference in interconnect cables. I used the best switches I could find Penny and Giles silver plated contacts etc. I used some Mark Levinson 100% silver wire against Mogami and Radio shack, both having molded RCA's. All tested with line level sources. To my surprise (and dissapointment), I could not hear any difference. Even the switch contacts were silent. I had to look over the setup to make sure I was indee switching. I did find differences in phono cables though. Mogami was microphonic. You could get it to make noise by moving the cables. You should use low capacitance cable for Hi-z phono ....and with a good shield.
 
#771
mrshow4u said:
Hi Audiobomber, at the risk of getting holy hell unleashed on me.... ....I'm right there with you. I did an experiment setting out to prove there was a difference in interconnect cables. I used the best switches I could find Penny and Giles silver plated contacts etc. I used some Mark Levinson 100% silver wire against Mogami and Radio shack, both having molded RCA's. All tested with line level sources. To my surprise (and dissapointment), I could not hear any difference. Even the switch contacts were silent. I had to look over the setup to make sure I was indee switching. I did find differences in phono cables though. Mogami was microphonic. You could get it to make noise by moving the cables. You should use low capacitance cable for Hi-z phono ....and with a good shield.
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Don't worry. Some of the best people have been fooled by the cable hype. Roger Russell, former Director of Acoustic Research at McIntosh Laboratory, Inc. and the originator of McIntosh Loudspeakers.
 
#773
mrshow4u said:
Hi Audiobomber, at the risk of getting holy hell unleashed on me.... ....I'm right there with you.
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HOLY HELL UNLEASHED!!!!!!!!!! 🙂


You are not there with him.

He heard a difference but likes the cheap ones more, His perception is that they sound MORE accurate.

You heard no difference and thus like the cheap ones equally.

Those are not the same situation at all.

Sean

P.S. my disclosure - I have "heard" diffences in cable...but I have bigger fish to fry right now. i.e. getting the speakers and amps right.
 
#774
seanzozo said:
HOLY HELL UNLEASHED!!!!!!!!!! 🙂

You are not there with him.

He heard a difference but likes the cheap ones more, His perception is that they sound MORE accurate.
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Exactly, thanks for clarifying that Sean. All interconnects sound different to me. Some speaker cables sound different, some sound the same. But I prefer the inexpensive SonicWave cables to any I've tried, cheap or pricey because they don't affect the sound at all. As a result I've changed the cables in my system to SonicWaves, and I'm not going to bother listening to or changing cables any more.
 
#776
"Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On an ever-spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain
Or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel thats turning
Running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind"

🙂
 
#779
Audiobomber, I think you are on the right track. Anybody interested in using a scientific method? Determine what right is. Make a good ABX test that doesn't rely on sonic memory and go about it in a repeatable way. I'm all for hearing a difference. I just haven't with decent cables on line stages with low source impedance. No goofy stuff either, like that graphite cable where it's 30 ohms per foot, the levels have to match. We could use a display that shows a number, a random interconnect selection could be made, then we could check our choices relative to the logged random choices. I get the feeling that most "aren't into it". I've seen too many times, people swapping the cables, feeling that Kimber knit in their hands, predisposing them to the "correct" choice. If it can't be proven through a scientific method, instrumentation or not, is it worth spending the money on hopefully the right choice. Do not throw toast, the grit gets into the eyes. Jell-o and pasta is okay.
 
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