I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

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#7,501
Well, since were all talking about super good cables 🙂 Ill add my weasley $o.oo2 cents 🙂

Monster cable $63.95 Canadian,
LinkFuture Shop: Audio: Audio Cables: Monster Coaxial Digital Audio 100 2M Cable

A few months ago probably more ( ish ) a customer bought this cable it was 129$ OUCH! i went back to do other things and he removed it hated monster products knowing that they were CHEAP CRAP and EXTREMELY over priced.

Pictures below, now how many people can tell me that this cable is worth 129$ I BET NO ONE! its got some 1$ cheap crap gold plated crappy rca on it and some crappy soldering done by monster and some crappy cable, WEIRD!!

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
 
#7,502
fredex said:
That's what I want too, but if everyone else said it sucks I would have to question my hearing, or is there more than one truth?
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I have been to that situation a few times,but I have returned to the same system again🙂 True,you may not feel good if you like something that some one else doesn't,but I won't have 10 sugar cubes in my coffee because some one else does 😀
Truth? Is there a "true" coffee,steak........?
 
#7,503
panomaniac said:
Coming from the printing side, I know this color difference thing pretty well. It's called Delta-E. The tolerance for printing is often expressed in Delta-E. We don't really have a measurement like that in audio, AFAIK.

If audio differences are not large, I often have trouble in the A/B switch. But what works best for me is to switch to something new, live with it for a week or two, then switch back to the old device. If there is a difference, it seems much more obviuos then. Not sure why, but this seems true for a lot of people.
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That is exactly what I do and how I was taught to compare anything with regards to audio components. Live with it and let it sink in for a week or more. Then change back to your original setup. If the differences were that great, they will be obvious. If not, life goes on as usual.
 
#7,504
fredex said:
I seem to remember having actual divine experiences before, but I could be wrong. 😀

you earlier; "What I want is to tune a system that I like to listen to music through it. I don't mind if any one else likes it or not."
That's what I want too, but if everyone else said it sucks I would have to question my hearing, or is there more than one truth?
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It is your system, your room, your music. Screw everyone else. If you think that maybe you are missing something that everyone is raving about, try to get a longer loan of the particular item and live with it some more. If you still like what you like, screw everyone else. You are the one paying for it!
 
#7,505
Curly Woods said:
Fredex,

I think it is an advantage if it is used properly. People have to understand what they are attempting to achieve. I listen to any changes for an extended period and switch it back to the way it was prior to the change and compare (capacitors, resistors, cables, etc). If I can not determine a definitive improvement, I will leave it as I had it prior to any changes. ..........
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Thanks for your reply, I work basically the same way. But what I have found interesting is revisiting mods and configurations tried years ago. I keep a journal and have documented all the changes I made.

You say at the top 'it is an advantage if it is used properly' which is a good warning as you can easily get lost if you are not careful.

If I may I have a little story. Whilst on holiday I stayed with a friend who was really into music and HiFi, this before The High End era. He made some remark about his sound, and being technical I said I can alter that in the preamp, and so I did. After some serious listening he said you have improved that but now I can't hear such and such as well. So I did more alterations and although he liked the change it threw up some other problem. This went on day after day until frankly I was thinking this guy will never be satisfied. I said I will make one more effort but that is it. Without telling him what I was doing I put it all back to the way it was when I arrived, but told him I think I have it now, listen to this. He thought I was a genious. He said yes you have done it, this is exactly the sound I have been after all these years!
 
#7,506
fredex said:
Thanks for your reply, I work basically the same way. But what I have found interesting is revisiting mods and configurations tried years ago. I keep a journal and have documented all the changes I made.

You say at the top 'it is an advantage if it is used properly' which is a good warning as you can easily get lost if you are not careful.

If I may I have a little story. Whilst on holiday I stayed with a friend who was really into music and HiFi, this before The High End era. He made some remark about his sound, and being technical I said I can alter that in the preamp, and so I did. After some serious listening he said you have improved that but now I can't hear such and such as well. So I did more alterations and although he liked the change it threw up some other problem. This went on day after day until frankly I was thinking this guy will never be satisfied. I said I will make one more effort but that is it. Without telling him what I was doing I put it all back to the way it was when I arrived, but told him I think I have it now, listen to this. He thought I was a genious. He said yes you have done it, this is exactly the sound I have been after all these years!
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LOL!!! Now that was funny! LOL!!!!!
 
#7,507
Curly Woods said:
These are very subtle differences at first blush. Once heard though they are remembered and if taken away it is a huge lose.

The person that thought me how to listen intently, showed me the differences in many different amplifiers and these were very subtle when I first came to hear them, but over time I could begin to notice differences much quicker as I knew what I was listening for. Now I don't really care what I hear on short term basis. I want to live with things for an extended period to determine if the changes are for the better or worse, which can be deceiving on a short term basis.
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Nice post.

I agree, the best way to choose cables / equipment for a system will be with longer term listening, sometimes short term listening will sound impressive but after a while you realise that some instruments just doesn't sound realistic.

In my experience, once I've heard (found) the differences between cables or equipment, it is possible to identify which is used within seconds of listening to my well known test music.
 
#7,508
fredex said:
Thanks for your reply, I work basically the same way. But what I have found interesting is revisiting mods and configurations tried years ago. I keep a journal and have documented all the changes I made.

You say at the top 'it is an advantage if it is used properly' which is a good warning as you can easily get lost if you are not careful.

If I may I have a little story. Whilst on holiday I stayed with a friend who was really into music and HiFi, this before The High End era. He made some remark about his sound, and being technical I said I can alter that in the preamp, and so I did. After some serious listening he said you have improved that but now I can't hear such and such as well. So I did more alterations and although he liked the change it threw up some other problem. This went on day after day until frankly I was thinking this guy will never be satisfied. I said I will make one more effort but that is it. Without telling him what I was doing I put it all back to the way it was when I arrived, but told him I think I have it now, listen to this. He thought I was a genious. He said yes you have done it, this is exactly the sound I have been after all these years!
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And this is the best lesson for any tweaker.
Always try to go back to the starting point, and never ever make anything ireversible.
 
#7,512
OF COURSE cables make a difference!

Through careful (and some would say gifted) listening, I have proven to myself, beyond any reasonable doubt, that there is a very desirable "coloration" of the sound, when using speaker cables, compared to when not using speaker cables. In my humble opinion, the difference is due to the fact that there is no sound from the speakers, when not using speaker cables.

<grin!>
 
#7,514
fredex said:
It is our restless minds. The mind uses cables and other tweaks to provide some change for us to appreciate. Maybe perfection day in and day out is just boring.
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This happens every time I add / change / upgrade some part of my system. (Especially speakers or room acoustics). I go back and revisit music I thought I knew well and had become familiar, even jaded, with and now discover things in it that I hadn't noticed before.
 
#7,515
I acknowledge that the double blind (ABX) process can be hard work on the listener. So, here’s an alternative for seeing if cables sound different.

  • Get two cables, same length, same diameter.
  • Play audio signal through each cable, from your favourite source. Convert the output from each cable into a digital file, at 24 bits resolution and 96kHz sample rate. That’s over 140db of dynamic range, with the highest frequency for sampling way in the ultrasonic.
  • Take each digital file. Time align them and mathematically subtract them. What’s left is a difference file. Play that file through your sound system. Even if the file is not null (contains some data) if you can’t hear anything when listening to the file, then no worries, there is no audible difference between the cables for your sound system , in your listening environment.
If one cable is $2 per metre (yard) and the other is $200 per metre (yard) then you’ve potentially saved a heap of money to spend on something else.
 
#7,516
boconnor said:
I acknowledge that the double blind (ABX) process can be hard work on the listener. So, here’s an alternative for seeing if cables sound different.

  • Get two cables, same length, same diameter.
  • Play audio signal through each cable, from your favourite source. Convert the output from each cable into a digital file, at 24 bits resolution and 96kHz sample rate. That’s over 140db of dynamic range, with the highest frequency for sampling way in the ultrasonic.
  • Take each digital file. Time align them and mathematically subtract them. What’s left is a difference file. Play that file through your sound system. Even if the file is not null (contains some data) if you can’t hear anything when listening to the file, then no worries, there is no audible difference between the cables for your sound system , in your listening environment.
If one cable is $2 per metre (yard) and the other is $200 per metre (yard) then you’ve potentially saved a heap of money to spend on something else.
Click to expand...
 
#7,517
Is there an AD converter that will convert analogue waveforms of this current and voltage without some type of attenuation? IMO and in my experience ABX is tiring but certainly doable. By the 20th comparison people are getting rather fatigued.

Sorry I inadvertantly failed to post my comment with the quote...
 
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#7,518
boconnor said:
I acknowledge that the double blind (ABX) process can be hard work on the listener. So, here’s an alternative for seeing if cables sound different.

  • Get two cables, same length, same diameter.
  • Play audio signal through each cable, from your favourite source. Convert the output from each cable into a digital file, at 24 bits resolution and 96kHz sample rate. That’s over 140db of dynamic range, with the highest frequency for sampling way in the ultrasonic.
  • Take each digital file. Time align them and mathematically subtract them. What’s left is a difference file. Play that file through your sound system. Even if the file is not null (contains some data) if you can’t hear anything when listening to the file, then no worries, there is no audible difference between the cables for your sound system , in your listening environment.
If one cable is $2 per metre (yard) and the other is $200 per metre (yard) then you’ve potentially saved a heap of money to spend on something else.
Click to expand...

That's one of the best ideas I've heard in a long time!
 
#7,520
Robert F said:
Is there an AD converter that will convert analogue waveforms of this current and voltage without some type of attenuation?
Click to expand...
I would just use line levels, no need for high voltage signals. But if you wanted you could take the output from the amp and attenuate it down to line level with a DI box, before input to a DAC.
IMO and in my experience ABX is tiring but certainly doable. By the 20th comparison people are getting rather fatigued.
Click to expand...
Yes, its doable. I’ve done 16 trial ABX tests on cables and I found it achievable if you maintain your patience.😉
 
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