Re: Sigma Drive
Some active designs use this. Mackie uses a feedback from the driver itself - they encourage you to go into a store and physically push on the mid driver so you can feel the amp instantaneously push back at you. I tried this and yeah all the other cheap powered monitors next to the mackies failed this test and the mackie passed. Of course all of those monitors looked like complete *** - comes with dustcaps pre pushed in for you!.
Salas said:
Some active designs use this. Mackie uses a feedback from the driver itself - they encourage you to go into a store and physically push on the mid driver so you can feel the amp instantaneously push back at you. I tried this and yeah all the other cheap powered monitors next to the mackies failed this test and the mackie passed. Of course all of those monitors looked like complete *** - comes with dustcaps pre pushed in for you!.
I really don't know they just have a lecture on active vs passive on there website I read one night. I haven't even heard the speakers enought to comment on if I like them or not. It just seemed like a decent idea for a design and I wanted to figure out how they did it at some point.
I think my monitors use current dumping in them and they seem to have a great damping factor as well. So more than one way I guess.
http://www.mackie.com/products/mackietechnology/Active_vs_Passive.html
Anyway I think any active monitor should in theory have a better damping factor due to not having to push through passive filters and only having to deal with one driver at a time etc... Really the advantages of active vs passive are too numerous to ever really list out.
I think my monitors use current dumping in them and they seem to have a great damping factor as well. So more than one way I guess.
http://www.mackie.com/products/mackietechnology/Active_vs_Passive.html
Anyway I think any active monitor should in theory have a better damping factor due to not having to push through passive filters and only having to deal with one driver at a time etc... Really the advantages of active vs passive are too numerous to ever really list out.
Scott,
You left this dangling somewhere in the storm.
Can you point me to a document that covers other materials from this point of view? I do agree that this is a problem with Teflon. Comparing a single #24 AWG wire in a Teflon tube to my beloved Litz / polyethylene / woven cotton casing, I heard more background noise with the teflon, but as near to identical performance otherwise, as I would be interested in.
Bud
You left this dangling somewhere in the storm.
Can you point me to a document that covers other materials from this point of view? I do agree that this is a problem with Teflon. Comparing a single #24 AWG wire in a Teflon tube to my beloved Litz / polyethylene / woven cotton casing, I heard more background noise with the teflon, but as near to identical performance otherwise, as I would be interested in.
Bud
Re: Sigma Drive
Hi. It is certainly science, remote sensing works, but to keep it simple maybe thicker cables are all we need.
Of course if someone believes that cables lose information etc etc, then this idea won't appeal, as the sensing cable will also lose information etc etc. 🙂
Salas said:
Hi. It is certainly science, remote sensing works, but to keep it simple maybe thicker cables are all we need.
Of course if someone believes that cables lose information etc etc, then this idea won't appeal, as the sensing cable will also lose information etc etc. 🙂
It works in my regs for sure, and know what? They had shunt regs in some L line amplifiers back then!
The interesting thing is that they were stating about cable distortion both for speaker interface and interconnection in 1982.
''In addition to the normal speaker leads, a special "Sigma" connection feeds distortion products caused in the speaker wires''
''Sigma Drive is also employed between the pre-amp and power-amp stages where it compensates for any signal loss in the interconnection''
I suspect that the Japanese are 50 years ahead.😎 I can imagine an original Kenwood prestige series designer smiling while browsing us on a palmtop in his way back home on a super speed smooth maglev space age train ride, ready for relax to his classical vinyl collection spinning on his yr1979 L-07D awesome TT.
The interesting thing is that they were stating about cable distortion both for speaker interface and interconnection in 1982.
''In addition to the normal speaker leads, a special "Sigma" connection feeds distortion products caused in the speaker wires''
''Sigma Drive is also employed between the pre-amp and power-amp stages where it compensates for any signal loss in the interconnection''
I suspect that the Japanese are 50 years ahead.😎 I can imagine an original Kenwood prestige series designer smiling while browsing us on a palmtop in his way back home on a super speed smooth maglev space age train ride, ready for relax to his classical vinyl collection spinning on his yr1979 L-07D awesome TT.
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BudP said:
Came to much the same conclusion about 15 years ago: plus a couple of other cotton based covers impreged with other (natural) materials.
Are your Litz multi strand 'fine' wire? Try 7 strand heavier gauge with natural shellac on each strand. 7 Strand twists better than almost any other number of strands.
brianco,
Actually it is REAL Litz wire. 140 strands of #40AWG with an 0.002" thick polyester / nylon coating on all strands, with three separate twisted hanks, comprised of twisted wires.
I have used larger gauges of wire in a braid and in a twist and all were coated with class A rated shellac (temperature range of the coating, not a rating of it's actually terrible performance in the original usage) of unknown provenance, but from the early 50's.
I found it squirreled away with a load of silk coated winding wire from before the 2nd world war, in the first transformer company I worked for, in the 70's. First law of transformers "throw nothing away".
I do still have a pair of speaker wires twisted from 10 #20 AWG shellacked wire strands. They have no other dielectric around them and just like bare Litz, they are deadly boring to listen to. Music as detailed Brownian noise.
I chose to use the Litz because I can induce some time spread to all signals, with very small pieces of a distributed, very low dielectric constant, plastic tube. The huge surface area of the Litz allows this, in fact it demands that just very tiny amounts of plastic be used, so the coloration that a thick plastic coating, suitable for protecting lives rather than music, is not a sonic values issue.
Bud
Actually it is REAL Litz wire. 140 strands of #40AWG with an 0.002" thick polyester / nylon coating on all strands, with three separate twisted hanks, comprised of twisted wires.
I have used larger gauges of wire in a braid and in a twist and all were coated with class A rated shellac (temperature range of the coating, not a rating of it's actually terrible performance in the original usage) of unknown provenance, but from the early 50's.
I found it squirreled away with a load of silk coated winding wire from before the 2nd world war, in the first transformer company I worked for, in the 70's. First law of transformers "throw nothing away".
I do still have a pair of speaker wires twisted from 10 #20 AWG shellacked wire strands. They have no other dielectric around them and just like bare Litz, they are deadly boring to listen to. Music as detailed Brownian noise.
I chose to use the Litz because I can induce some time spread to all signals, with very small pieces of a distributed, very low dielectric constant, plastic tube. The huge surface area of the Litz allows this, in fact it demands that just very tiny amounts of plastic be used, so the coloration that a thick plastic coating, suitable for protecting lives rather than music, is not a sonic values issue.
Bud
panomaniac said:
I do believe this plays a big part in it. Both the dynamic range of the recording chain and the playback chain seem to never get at that 105dB target. I think I might have the ingredients here to pull it off okay. Blue Baby bottle mic into a non coloring pre-amp captured at 192k 24bit played back through my active monitors gets very close. Of course this is also tricky to deal with since a lot of people seem to hate true dynamics - can be a pain when you are trying to watch a movie but don't want to disturb the person in the next room is a common problem. Me I am personally all for it.
Electric Instruments which seem to be prevalent rarely have much dynamics to them just on there own. They are usually just on and off dynamics - loud or off no in between unless they are good with a volume control.
fdegrove said:
Before spending any serious bucks i bought a dozen of Russian FT-3 (hopefully no submarines were hurt in this transaction).
Against the overwhelmingly positive internet buzz i found them unsuitable for music even after removing the alu shell. This seriously discouraged me from spending good wine money on V-caps.
Salas said:ready for relax to his classical vinyl collection spinning on his yr1979 L-07D awesome TT.
It is probably the least involving turntable i ever owned. Waaay too much damping everywhere.
BudP said:
Here's one list:
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Triboelectric_effect
I'm sure there is ample literature on the subject. Notice BTW the excellent properties of cotton. 🙂 Teflon is problematic whenever it is in mechanical contact with other matierials and there is motion/vibration present.
That's all very interesting, but what are the relative values (i.e., how much greater is the triboelectric effect for teflon compared to cotton)? And what does it have to do with wire in audio equipment?
John
Salas said:
It's also known as a "Kelvin" connection. I'm staring right now at a 100yr old 800A current shunt with one.
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