What Jim Lesurf has to say:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/Analog.html
The twin-feed calculator I have already linked to.
- Klaus
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/Analog.html
The twin-feed calculator I have already linked to.
- Klaus
I was thinking about wine judging last night. Now isn't it a rule to spit out the wine so you wont get intoxicated and cloud your judgement?
This could be a big overlooked problem with listening tests and music. imo the goal of a song is not that much different than the goal of a good intoxicant. I have heard a lot of hearsay about tests being done in the 70s to figure out what beats per minutes stimulate dopamine in the brain - this is why disco would use practically the same bpm for every song.
This sort of fits in with my idea of "song fatigue". If you are listening to the same bpm over and over which was most likely intuitively chosen by the artist because it interacts with his brain the most. Well there is no way to spit that out and not cloud your judgment.
This could be a big overlooked problem with listening tests and music. imo the goal of a song is not that much different than the goal of a good intoxicant. I have heard a lot of hearsay about tests being done in the 70s to figure out what beats per minutes stimulate dopamine in the brain - this is why disco would use practically the same bpm for every song.
This sort of fits in with my idea of "song fatigue". If you are listening to the same bpm over and over which was most likely intuitively chosen by the artist because it interacts with his brain the most. Well there is no way to spit that out and not cloud your judgment.
some help from the gurus
I'm confused by some of the efforts to define electrical representation of music as "a bunch of frequencies being carried simultaneously in a cable". Maybe it's due to the rampant disemination of FT analysis, but i always pictured the analog signal going to the speakers as a single signal (Ha! always wanted to use this phrase...😀 ) that can be binned mathematically to whatever resolution feasible as an analytic tool only... to understand what the complex SINGLE waveform at an instant might represent in the frequency domain.
All this talk of low level signals riding on high level signals seems to miss the point entirely (and maybe an attempt to justify single xtal, dielectric effects, etc.). The amp produces an instantaneous electrical potential representative of the sum of all the frequencies required, but it's only one potential when measured at a significantly short delta(t).
Am I missing something?
John L.
I'm confused by some of the efforts to define electrical representation of music as "a bunch of frequencies being carried simultaneously in a cable". Maybe it's due to the rampant disemination of FT analysis, but i always pictured the analog signal going to the speakers as a single signal (Ha! always wanted to use this phrase...😀 ) that can be binned mathematically to whatever resolution feasible as an analytic tool only... to understand what the complex SINGLE waveform at an instant might represent in the frequency domain.
All this talk of low level signals riding on high level signals seems to miss the point entirely (and maybe an attempt to justify single xtal, dielectric effects, etc.). The amp produces an instantaneous electrical potential representative of the sum of all the frequencies required, but it's only one potential when measured at a significantly short delta(t).
Am I missing something?
John L.
Not a rule, but generally done for exactly that reason. Also, the quantity actually tasted is rather small- most of the judgment is based on aromatics.
This doesn't apply when testing the effects of cheese wrapping, but the horrible industrial cheese under test does not compel the tester to do anything more than sniff, chew, and spit.
Re: some help from the gurus
The phenomena acting on that signal single signal are frequency dependent. =D
auplater said:
The phenomena acting on that signal single signal are frequency dependent. =D
SY said:
No dielectric absorption?
SY said:
So there are no way that cables can have a different influence (small) on relative phase between signals of different frequency and size?
What you described was not DA and does not actually occur.
Beyond plain old RLC? At lengths a minuscule fraction of the wavelengths of frequencies they're carrying? No.
Re: some help from the gurus
I'm not trying to justify anything, merely hoping to steer the thinking in the direction of where I hear the differences.
Sure it is one signal but all different frequencies and levels of each sound are added together and represented by a complex signal. Just look at an audio signal on a scope and tell me that all the different frequencies doesn't ride on each other.
auplater said:
I'm not trying to justify anything, merely hoping to steer the thinking in the direction of where I hear the differences.
Sure it is one signal but all different frequencies and levels of each sound are added together and represented by a complex signal. Just look at an audio signal on a scope and tell me that all the different frequencies doesn't ride on each other.
To clear up this minor distraction, my post indicated that the most common metallic impurity in commercial grade copper wire is iron, which is the case for the simple reason that steel is the material used in the machinery that processes copper wire and contamination is inevitable. Even if concentrations are low, the ferromagnetism of iron swamps copper's diamagnetism in concentrations of atoms per milligram.
I made no claims about the attenuated plane wave at skin depth lagging by one radian the plane wave at the surface of a copper conductor. I merely stated that analyzing the propagation of a complex signal at all depths of a conductor would be a prodigious task. I'm going to leave it at that.
I understand where SY is leading his own analysis of a copper cable, and that is precisely why I believe that calculating or measuring the LCR in a cable has nothing to do with so-called "smearing". As a matter of fact I haven't made any conclusions at all regarding "smearing".
Sheesh.
John
SY said:
Only in capacitors then?
SY said:
So you say cables behave linearly throughout the audio band? That were not what I've seen on tests done with speaker cables, some begin to influence FR from as low as 2 or 3khz, so phase must be influenced at much lower frequencies already.
For a 12ft cable like that into an 8ohm resistor phase should be pretty flat out to 3K and shift by a whopping 1/4 deg at 20Khz, right?
Does a single electrostsatic moment of vector change in a signal encompass all, or only some of the signal source to speaker chain?
I have read that an amplifier is about 1k nanoseconds long. I am wondering just how complex an interaction can be occurring, during that momentary stoppage to change the field vector, if this vector change is occurring over a significant portion of the entire audio chain length that only includes cables as a part of the overall situation.
Does this question make sense?
Bud
I have read that an amplifier is about 1k nanoseconds long. I am wondering just how complex an interaction can be occurring, during that momentary stoppage to change the field vector, if this vector change is occurring over a significant portion of the entire audio chain length that only includes cables as a part of the overall situation.
Does this question make sense?
Bud
AV: Even in capacitors, what you described was not DA; DA is mostly a DC effect, critical for timing caps but of little relevance to audio.
You might do a quick scaling calculation to get a reality check on your imaginative hypothesis.
I don't know every badly designed audiophile cable out there, so can't comment on whatever unspecific thing you're vaguely referring to. But I don't see any phase anomalies or exotic dielectric effects with my plain orange Home Depot $5 extension cord cables; just a simple RCL, no significant phase shifts in the audio band.
You might do a quick scaling calculation to get a reality check on your imaginative hypothesis.
I don't know every badly designed audiophile cable out there, so can't comment on whatever unspecific thing you're vaguely referring to. But I don't see any phase anomalies or exotic dielectric effects with my plain orange Home Depot $5 extension cord cables; just a simple RCL, no significant phase shifts in the audio band.
I remember trying to teach a French buddy of mine the American expression, "Cheese-eating surrender monkeys." He said, "I oonderstan all of zose words by zemself, but I do not know what zees meens togezer."
To the first order DA is a linear effect and and there is no "memory" of complex signals. Bob Pease showed years ago that DA can be approximated by a ladder network of perfectly ideal R's aand C's to an arbitrary accuracy for a wide range of good ordinary matierials. Distortion of non-linear dielectrics is a completely different matter.
BudP said:
1K nanoseconds long?? = 1uS?? Long?? You seem to have a dimensioning problem there.
The rest is ... whatever I want it to mean, said Alice.
Re: some help from the gurus
No. I have exactly the same comprehension problem!
The anthropomorphistic description of all these little delicate signals desparately trying to get through this awfully impure conductor and being swamped by a big base drum!
Guys! Guys! Another Fe atom ahead - Swerve! Swerve!
auplater said:
No. I have exactly the same comprehension problem!
The anthropomorphistic description of all these little delicate signals desparately trying to get through this awfully impure conductor and being swamped by a big base drum!
Guys! Guys! Another Fe atom ahead - Swerve! Swerve!
SY said:
Even AC are DC if measured at short intervals. 😀
SY said:
I know I'm looking at small influences but the differences is mostly in the detail. I know you don't care about that but I do. 🙂
SY said:
Even if you look at the Audio Critic article, you can see the influence of the cables on FR.
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