Pan said:
Also true but what I'm suggesting is that two amplifiers with FLAT freq response well beyond the audio range will most likely sound very different from each other.
André
dukeoyork said:
Fact is the things that can be measured but not heard are of little importance to us, things we can hear but not measure(yet), are.
The external cables of a system cant get better than the internal cables of the speaker, amp, and source.. Simple as that.
Studies of happiness suggest that the brain can change to allow happiness under new conditions. So cables can make a difference if one anticipates a positive improvement and enjoys the upgrade process. "Better" can only be a perception, whether or not it's provable by external measurement.
This is a hobby. If the tweeking process is enjoyable it likely does make the music sound better. Does it matter why? Do fuzzy dice hanging in a car make the car better? For some people yes.
Proper double blind tests are brutal to audiophiles beliefs. My favorite is the guy who proved he could make a wire coat hanger sound as good as high end speaker wires.
If you like buying new cables and power cords and stuff, just enjoy it. It almost always only changing your brain, not the external music. But the bottom line is there is no difference in why the music is better. If its only due to brain changes, it's still literally true that the music is better.
This is a hobby. If the tweeking process is enjoyable it likely does make the music sound better. Does it matter why? Do fuzzy dice hanging in a car make the car better? For some people yes.
Proper double blind tests are brutal to audiophiles beliefs. My favorite is the guy who proved he could make a wire coat hanger sound as good as high end speaker wires.
If you like buying new cables and power cords and stuff, just enjoy it. It almost always only changing your brain, not the external music. But the bottom line is there is no difference in why the music is better. If its only due to brain changes, it's still literally true that the music is better.
dzzmiller said:
Strange that different people can give the same description of the differences between cables without knowing what cables are used.
André
dzzmiller said:
This informal group test is your standard for scientific proof? My first reaction was 'how do you get two metres of wire from one coat hanger?' I measure under 40 inches. And how exactly does one solder steel? The entire story smells of pure fiction. You did however furnish a data point that people will believe whatever makes them happy.
Yes it does matter, if you want to understand.
Belief soon turns to doubt when someone disputes the effect of the tweak, so it's only usually a temporary form of satisfaction. The audio industry love people who tweak but do not understand why or what they are doing.
You don't and neither did his brother. Read it again.
Not all soldering is done with an iron.
I think I will start hanging my clothes on teflon insulated solid core OFC copper hangers.I will report of the results soon😀
OK. And? He specifically states four coat hangers, not eight. And how were 'connections' soldered to heavy gauge steel (and why)?
His brother must be some kind of Goldfinger.He opened the closet took out a pair of 2m twisted steel ......cables closed the closet walked in the room connected the ......cables on the amp and speakers and no one noticed anything strange.Thank goodness they were not comparing speakers.Maybe they wouldn't be able to tell the difference in sound between the speakers and the closet😀
Andre Visser said:
I'm not saying that all upgrades are the same, or that some don't have value.
High-end cables are made to sound different. But so does a small change in equilibration, tilting a speaker a few degrees, and countless other possible changes. It's up to the user to determine determine the value of the small change.. It's always 'warmer' of 'clearer' with cables.
But if the people who make these custom products could do a double blind test and show results favorable to their products, we would hear about it. I'm sure many have tried because they were sure of their product, and would show the doubters their error once and for all.
We purchase many items for how it makes us feel. Perhaps most items. There's no reason that shouldn't apply to audio equipment.
We all believe we are much more rational and aware than we really are. That includes engineers. In fact analytical men are probably the group least aware of how their feelings affect their beliefs. Personally, I enjoy my ignorance. Let me tell you about my modified Mustang convertible, obviously the best car ever made...........
rdf,
I think I see the confusion. I am wondering if he meant he took a total of four hangers, took two of them, twisted them together end to end to make one cable (approx 2 metres), soldered them at that point and did the same for the second. No connectors, just connections. That's how I read it. Interesting. I just think it was poorly written. Mind you it's written by a Dr. of Psychology so who knows what he meant.
Anyways, cheers.
I think I see the confusion. I am wondering if he meant he took a total of four hangers, took two of them, twisted them together end to end to make one cable (approx 2 metres), soldered them at that point and did the same for the second. No connectors, just connections. That's how I read it. Interesting. I just think it was poorly written. Mind you it's written by a Dr. of Psychology so who knows what he meant.
Anyways, cheers.
I think you nail it Cal, which unfortunately speaks to how much weight should be accorded the report.
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