believer
well personally i believe there is a difference to be made but it all works in correspondence and being logical, if you have a $300 or $400 amp or receiver or even hi-fi system that is Optical compatible or coax compatible then you dont need to go out and buy those expensive cables you may not even need them. as i have two receivers in my house $400 and a $4,500 one now on the cheaper one i run it one optical and component. all my cables are expensive but the normal rca ones r cheap reject shop ones, now i cant tell the difference between the cheap and expensive when i change the input the reject shop sound just as good as the Monster cables. Now on the expensive one i have thick expensive gold plated cables they sound just as good as any other optical component and optical. so realy price has no difference on the cables its just what cables you use. if you get what i mean.
well personally i believe there is a difference to be made but it all works in correspondence and being logical, if you have a $300 or $400 amp or receiver or even hi-fi system that is Optical compatible or coax compatible then you dont need to go out and buy those expensive cables you may not even need them. as i have two receivers in my house $400 and a $4,500 one now on the cheaper one i run it one optical and component. all my cables are expensive but the normal rca ones r cheap reject shop ones, now i cant tell the difference between the cheap and expensive when i change the input the reject shop sound just as good as the Monster cables. Now on the expensive one i have thick expensive gold plated cables they sound just as good as any other optical component and optical. so realy price has no difference on the cables its just what cables you use. if you get what i mean.
Re: Re: believer
yer i do but i guess i went in a bit of a circle so cut long story short cheap cables are as great as the expensive ones 🙂
analog_sa said:
yer i do but i guess i went in a bit of a circle so cut long story short cheap cables are as great as the expensive ones 🙂
Re: Re: Re: believer
Or perhaps,cheap receivers sound as "great" as expensive ones
tcat said:
Or perhaps,cheap receivers sound as "great" as expensive ones
Re: Re: Re: Re: believer
Actually this makes a lot more sense than comparing digital to analogue connections and 'thick expensive gold plated cables ' to Monster.
Panicos K said:
Or perhaps,cheap receivers sound as "great" as expensive ones
Actually this makes a lot more sense than comparing digital to analogue connections and 'thick expensive gold plated cables ' to Monster.
Re: Re: Re: believer
It is not wise to measure cable quality with its pricetag although the better cables tend to be more expensive. Cable quality should match the quality of the system that it is used with.
tcat said:
It is not wise to measure cable quality with its pricetag although the better cables tend to be more expensive. Cable quality should match the quality of the system that it is used with.
I say measuring cable is not interesting.
Because the impedance of a proper cables is so small in the system context.
The effect of a wire is in itself very small.
And a wire put in relation to other much, much higher impedances makes any minute effects not worth bothering with.
🙂
Because the impedance of a proper cables is so small in the system context.
The effect of a wire is in itself very small.
And a wire put in relation to other much, much higher impedances makes any minute effects not worth bothering with.
🙂
A shorted cable has a very small impedance but a very large effect at an amplifier's output. Try again.
And anyone old enough to remember the Polk cables and their amp-killing propensities will also take issue with that.
Another example of the advances in high end audio actually being major steps backward.
Another example of the advances in high end audio actually being major steps backward.
lineup said:
Well that statement will depend on the quality of a system, the music you listen to and what you expect to hear from the system.
It is quite possible to change the character of a system with cables alone, I would not say the effect is small.
SY perhaps it would be a good idea if we could define "high-end audio"? Then we would be sure we are talking about the same thing.I agree with your comment but I wouldn't blame all "high-end" manufacturers for every step backwards in audio.I am old enough to remember Polk audio and my efforts to tame the tweeter output of one of their speakers.My friend who owned that speaker was ready to through it outside the window of his appartment on the 5th floor🙂 To begin with,for me at least,price does not define high-end audi😵n the other hand,with only few exceptions,I have never heard cheap audio to make stunning sounds.
Hi, I have just spotted this discussion and haven't had a chance to read all the posts, though I have read the last few pages of posts, so i hope I will not be repeating something that has already been said.
I started out thinking that cables couldn't make a difference, and when I used my computers CDROM as a transport, that was the case. Once I got my first half-way decent CD player, I discovered there is a difference between different interconnects, though I still thought speaker cables were nothing more than a gimmick. Then I got a reasonably decent amplifier and found that actually, speaker cables DO make a difference, but I still thought that changing power cables was a waste of time and money. Now I can attest to the fact that power cables are indeed able to make a significant difference to the way a system sounds. Since I do not have vast sums of money to spend on these items, I have learned to build my own cables and I have friends and customers who will attest to the fact that they actually do make a significant improvement in their systems. It is possible to tone down an overly bright system with cables and it is also possible to improve upon a dull-sounding treble with cables. Other aspects of sound-reproduction can also be tweaked with cables, but the treble seems to be the more obvious and easiest to hear.
Some time ago, I met a guy who had a pair of 50w Krells rebuilt by engineering students at a nearby University. He was absolutely desperate because they sounded nothing like the other pair he had, and were in fact quite terrible to listen to. They had been done exactly to specification - well, almost exactly to specification. The one factor they had not paid attention to was what type of wire to use where. When comparing them to the original pair, it was easy to see that they had paid close attention and got the actual wire gauges correct, but did not have a clue what types of wire to put where. Now there is one guy who believes that wire does make a difference!
Not only do different metals sound different (eg copper vs silver), but different types of wire made from the same metal do too. Many can attest to the fact that twisted multistrand wire sounds very different to solid single-strand wire of the same gauge. It goes further than that too. Copper wire of the same type and the same thickness can also sound different, depending upon factors such as purity and manufacturing methods. HOWEVER, there also seems to be an inordinate amount of hype and some highly unrealistic pricing associated with some cable manufacturers. I think it is up to each individual to use common sense and choose cables to suit his system in a practical and realistic fashion. There is nothing to be gained from connecting an MP3 player to your hi-fi with megabuck cabling!
There seems to me to be a large gap between measurement methods and audio sensitivity, so perhaps there are factors that are not yet known to science that affect the sound of each system and each component. My feeling is that engineers ought to be open -minded enough to admit the possibility that they don't know everything yet, and audiophiles should practice enough common sense to spend their money where it does the most good at any particular point in time.
I started out thinking that cables couldn't make a difference, and when I used my computers CDROM as a transport, that was the case. Once I got my first half-way decent CD player, I discovered there is a difference between different interconnects, though I still thought speaker cables were nothing more than a gimmick. Then I got a reasonably decent amplifier and found that actually, speaker cables DO make a difference, but I still thought that changing power cables was a waste of time and money. Now I can attest to the fact that power cables are indeed able to make a significant difference to the way a system sounds. Since I do not have vast sums of money to spend on these items, I have learned to build my own cables and I have friends and customers who will attest to the fact that they actually do make a significant improvement in their systems. It is possible to tone down an overly bright system with cables and it is also possible to improve upon a dull-sounding treble with cables. Other aspects of sound-reproduction can also be tweaked with cables, but the treble seems to be the more obvious and easiest to hear.
Some time ago, I met a guy who had a pair of 50w Krells rebuilt by engineering students at a nearby University. He was absolutely desperate because they sounded nothing like the other pair he had, and were in fact quite terrible to listen to. They had been done exactly to specification - well, almost exactly to specification. The one factor they had not paid attention to was what type of wire to use where. When comparing them to the original pair, it was easy to see that they had paid close attention and got the actual wire gauges correct, but did not have a clue what types of wire to put where. Now there is one guy who believes that wire does make a difference!
Not only do different metals sound different (eg copper vs silver), but different types of wire made from the same metal do too. Many can attest to the fact that twisted multistrand wire sounds very different to solid single-strand wire of the same gauge. It goes further than that too. Copper wire of the same type and the same thickness can also sound different, depending upon factors such as purity and manufacturing methods. HOWEVER, there also seems to be an inordinate amount of hype and some highly unrealistic pricing associated with some cable manufacturers. I think it is up to each individual to use common sense and choose cables to suit his system in a practical and realistic fashion. There is nothing to be gained from connecting an MP3 player to your hi-fi with megabuck cabling!
There seems to me to be a large gap between measurement methods and audio sensitivity, so perhaps there are factors that are not yet known to science that affect the sound of each system and each component. My feeling is that engineers ought to be open -minded enough to admit the possibility that they don't know everything yet, and audiophiles should practice enough common sense to spend their money where it does the most good at any particular point in time.
fredex said:I have been fooled several times. Once I was comparing my SE tube amp with my Class D amp and during a certain part of the music I thought "that's a little conjested I wonder how much better the Class D amp could resolve that?" and got up to switch amps only to discover I was already listening to the Class D.
😀
Auditory memory is notoriously poor but when you can't even remember which amp you plugged in then I think its definitely time to stop with the AB comparisons.
Hi,
Exactly.
Where are the days we made interconnects out of twisted pairs of fine enamelled copper wire?
I guess with the advent of cellulars that simplistic design won't work as well anymore but it sure was a big step forward from the crappy cables you got thrown in with even the better gear.
As for SY...
I fear all of his sensory development has concentrated around food, wine and other bacchanal excesses....😉
That's the one part of life he doesn't want to measure....😀
IOW, a man with an oral fixation as opposed to an aural one.
Cables to the tables now, 😉
P.S. Hihopes... Thank you for posting. It's always reassuring to see other people from different parts of the globe confirm one's own experiences.
Rest assured, science will catch up one day. It always does.... Sooner or later.
Exactly.
Where are the days we made interconnects out of twisted pairs of fine enamelled copper wire?
I guess with the advent of cellulars that simplistic design won't work as well anymore but it sure was a big step forward from the crappy cables you got thrown in with even the better gear.
As for SY...
I fear all of his sensory development has concentrated around food, wine and other bacchanal excesses....😉
That's the one part of life he doesn't want to measure....😀
IOW, a man with an oral fixation as opposed to an aural one.
Cables to the tables now, 😉
P.S. Hihopes... Thank you for posting. It's always reassuring to see other people from different parts of the globe confirm one's own experiences.
Rest assured, science will catch up one day. It always does.... Sooner or later.
Go for it, homie!
I was using the term in the pejorative sense, the snake oil that seems to have taken it over. There are no more Paul Weathers or Peter Walkers. Polk's cables were some of the earliest attempts to substitute marketing and superstition for real engineering; once that door was open, it was a short step to the modern era of hype, pseudoscience, and quackery.
one that ive heard before is your system is only as good as its weakest link. and its sounding pretty right to me
With proper and well dimensioned standard copper cables
your system will not have the wires as weakest link.
There are several 100-s of other components in your audio system
that can not come close to in electronical performance to a good copper wire 😎 !!!!
your system will not have the wires as weakest link.
There are several 100-s of other components in your audio system
that can not come close to in electronical performance to a good copper wire 😎 !!!!
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