ShinOBIWAN said:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Example of how to use on input and output terminal uses
It is easy to have a laugh on similar tricks, that people use to change their subjective perception of sound.
But how about changing one transistor, resistor, capacitor brand or other component?
If the effect we get is not measurable or otherwise verifiable
I can not see we need to laugh less or more about these positive effects.
And a subjective effect is one effect none the less.
But can only have limited use for a few persons
.. who actually can believe in this effect and so are open for to be effected.
Lineup
I see. Well I'm just off to my local spiritualist to get in touch with my long dead ancestors.
if you believe in magic
there is nothing impossible to imagine ... like talk to my dead mama, once again 😉
there is nothing impossible to imagine ... like talk to my dead mama, once again 😉
Hi,
i never talk to my mama, although she is - presumably - still
alive. That's real magic guys !
Kind regards
i never talk to my mama, although she is - presumably - still
alive. That's real magic guys !
Kind regards
That turns out not to be the case. Biases are often, maybe usually, unconscious. Humans are hard-wired to seek out patterns even when none exist- we can't help it, we can't remove our unconscious biases, thus the need for controlled sensory testing to take a claimed effect beyond the level of a fairy tale.
Hello Gentlemen,
though i love discussions with epistemological background,
i'd like to ask some pragmatical questions about things which
"are always done this way".
They have to do with the proximity of measurements to
"typical application" of components.
Is it near to typical application to measure the
frequency response of a speaker in an anechoic room
at 1m distance on axis ?
Is it near to typical application, to measure distortion
and other parameters of an amplifier using resistors as load ?
Is it near to typical application, to measure hifi equipment like
a tube amplifier or a turntable/tonearm/pickup standing on
a labor desk in the absence of vibration ?
... and so on
---
The typical application of HiFi components is - to me - to use
them for listening to all kinds of music we love to hear.
Kind regards
though i love discussions with epistemological background,
i'd like to ask some pragmatical questions about things which
"are always done this way".
They have to do with the proximity of measurements to
"typical application" of components.
Is it near to typical application to measure the
frequency response of a speaker in an anechoic room
at 1m distance on axis ?
Is it near to typical application, to measure distortion
and other parameters of an amplifier using resistors as load ?
Is it near to typical application, to measure hifi equipment like
a tube amplifier or a turntable/tonearm/pickup standing on
a labor desk in the absence of vibration ?
... and so on
---
The typical application of HiFi components is - to me - to use
them for listening to all kinds of music we love to hear.
Kind regards
Totally. One of my classmates from grad school, for example, had retinitis pigmentosa which progressed to full blindness, but became a pretty prominent laser spectroscopist. I suppose he didn't have to worry about accidental eye damage...
LineArray
You have got some good questions/points.
Measurements are done in a standard way, in order to be repeatable.
This way, it is true, we do not get more than a tiny bit of information.
At only those very limited conditions as tested.
From this we can compare against another device, but only by these standard values.
From this we can not more than give a prediction, how the device will operate at other conditions, than those tested.
For example, test the amplifier THD with a dummy resistor 8 Ohm, 1 kHz sinus 1 Watt.
This is not very close to any real use.
When using a real loudspeaker, we have
1. very much more complex load, inlcuding crossovers
2. we are intested of the performance at the speaker output, not across amp output terminals.
3. we have a spectrum of frequencies
4. we have variations in power output levels
5. there are several other values than THD. And not only harmonic distortions.
My conclusion is:
- doing a few standard conventional tests and think this can tell much about an audio object
and make a certain prediction which object is 'the better one' in compare
... is not very wise.
In best case it may giive you a little hint of what can be. Only.
You have got some good questions/points.
Measurements are done in a standard way, in order to be repeatable.
This way, it is true, we do not get more than a tiny bit of information.
At only those very limited conditions as tested.
From this we can compare against another device, but only by these standard values.
From this we can not more than give a prediction, how the device will operate at other conditions, than those tested.
For example, test the amplifier THD with a dummy resistor 8 Ohm, 1 kHz sinus 1 Watt.
This is not very close to any real use.
When using a real loudspeaker, we have
1. very much more complex load, inlcuding crossovers
2. we are intested of the performance at the speaker output, not across amp output terminals.
3. we have a spectrum of frequencies
4. we have variations in power output levels
5. there are several other values than THD. And not only harmonic distortions.
My conclusion is:
- doing a few standard conventional tests and think this can tell much about an audio object
and make a certain prediction which object is 'the better one' in compare
... is not very wise.
In best case it may giive you a little hint of what can be. Only.
I think I have wrote somewhere in the forum once before, the old story of that guy who was very serious about the ''bad'' charges in rooms and on equipment based on work that his father has done. The guy is English, had lived in Japan and then in Australia. His old man was an electrical engineer. So he had some proprietary field treated metal foil strips, an ointment with metal particles treated in the same way, and maybe more stuff, I can't recall. Don't know where he got my email, maybe he had seen it on Positive Feedback mag where they had a design guide of mine for a DIY loudspeaker. I am talking year 2000.
His finding was about not most of the equipment ain't good enough, but negative field lines were making them sound sub optimal. Things in the room and location that had bad influence on the humans and the equipment. Something akin to a Feng Shui type of approach. He had sent me so many emails and an envelope with little charged strips to put on the compact discs, specifically on the stamped part that says ''Compact Disc digital audio'', because he mentioned that the ink is doing bad stuff when spinning. Also under one foot of each 4 foot chair in the listening room.
There were more guidelines and stuff, but that was the basic sample test thing. He was so sure I would notice a great difference whatever playback equipment I was using.
So I did the tricks on the media and the room, since he was so anxious that I would review his free samples and tell him.
Zero, I could not listen to any difference for better or worse. I was not prejudiced negatively or positively about his thing, just did it. he did not charge me with strong claims, nothing.
So I reported back that I could not hear his stuff influences. He absolutely accepted that. He did not try to say that I did not hear well enough or that I was negative, or that I must try again. He got very disappointed and just kept on wondering what was the special thing in my case that the treatments did not prove effective, since he had listened to them work in a big way and many other people that he gave them to test did too.
So I replied to him that I live less than 1km distance from Acropolis, and that I have heard that important ancient monuments like Stonehedge, the Egyptian pyramids, and Maya stuff are located carefully and regulate earth's fields positively within a considerable distance. I asked him if that is true and if yes, possibly be the reason that there were no disrupted fields to fix with his things.
He happily replied that now everything is explained, and that I am lucky living in close range to a significant ancient monument that stands on a hill, I have to do no treatments. He thanked me and never sent an email again. My next audio upgrade is I move to Egypt, then.
His finding was about not most of the equipment ain't good enough, but negative field lines were making them sound sub optimal. Things in the room and location that had bad influence on the humans and the equipment. Something akin to a Feng Shui type of approach. He had sent me so many emails and an envelope with little charged strips to put on the compact discs, specifically on the stamped part that says ''Compact Disc digital audio'', because he mentioned that the ink is doing bad stuff when spinning. Also under one foot of each 4 foot chair in the listening room.
There were more guidelines and stuff, but that was the basic sample test thing. He was so sure I would notice a great difference whatever playback equipment I was using.
So I did the tricks on the media and the room, since he was so anxious that I would review his free samples and tell him.
Zero, I could not listen to any difference for better or worse. I was not prejudiced negatively or positively about his thing, just did it. he did not charge me with strong claims, nothing.
So I reported back that I could not hear his stuff influences. He absolutely accepted that. He did not try to say that I did not hear well enough or that I was negative, or that I must try again. He got very disappointed and just kept on wondering what was the special thing in my case that the treatments did not prove effective, since he had listened to them work in a big way and many other people that he gave them to test did too.
So I replied to him that I live less than 1km distance from Acropolis, and that I have heard that important ancient monuments like Stonehedge, the Egyptian pyramids, and Maya stuff are located carefully and regulate earth's fields positively within a considerable distance. I asked him if that is true and if yes, possibly be the reason that there were no disrupted fields to fix with his things.
He happily replied that now everything is explained, and that I am lucky living in close range to a significant ancient monument that stands on a hill, I have to do no treatments. He thanked me and never sent an email again. My next audio upgrade is I move to Egypt, then.
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🙂 good story, salas 🙂
you are happy, he is happy, no bad feelings
you could have reacted different
made a problem of a thing that is not very important
be a good person is important, more important than many issues we can have
you are happy, he is happy, no bad feelings
you could have reacted different
made a problem of a thing that is not very important
be a good person is important, more important than many issues we can have
Hi salas,
are you accidentally one of these fellows
www.aca.gr ?
I watched that movie from the club lately ...
very nice. It is about obsession (among other things).
I watched it twice.
Kind regards
are you accidentally one of these fellows
www.aca.gr ?
I watched that movie from the club lately ...
very nice. It is about obsession (among other things).
I watched it twice.
Kind regards
No, those people are well off audiophiles owning luxurious equipment mainly. Its an owners and listeners club. Not technically versed. Me I DIY. All my equipment are self designed and made, except a dirt cheap DVD that I use for transport and the DAC.
It must have been him.When he started there were some samples for free in HI-FI NEWS magazine in UK.Most surprising recommendation then was to stick one in the inner pages of one or more books in your library!!! 
At that time in the issue of HFN/RR I think there was a review but I don't remember the "conclusion"🙂 It reminds me of a lady reviewer in an American magazine,who used to "throw"small pieces of wood inside her equipment.She said she could hear a difference.
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