I don't remember claiming to have proof of cables being audible. I do see where you have "claimed" to have "proven" that they have no affect on the sound. I don't think you should moan about a re-direct in our conversation when you purposely put words in my mouth and purposely take the article out of context as it applies to you Doug. Just admit that nothing has been proven accept that some blind testing suggests people cannot hear differences. This has been left open for further exploration as many people have testified that circumstances surrounding DBTing make for bad conditions for getting accurate results. Let's be honest too, DBT will never be "proof" of anything but merely evidence supporting a theory. A theory that you seem to have no problem claiming is proof which brings us back to the article I posted.
Stop putting words in everyone's mouth and then pretending to have some kind of proof as a rebuttal when we all know that is a false answer to an imaginary question.
If you want attention there are better ways of getting it.
Saying "I hear a difference" is light years away from saying "I have proof there is a difference". Hopefully now the thread canget back on track and we can stop arguing about imaginary stuff.
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It still surprices me that the "objectivitists", who state to "believe" in facts and poofs only, also in fact are being the most emotional ones here
I think you are reading it wrong then. We are not the ones acting like victims.
posting saying someone is a victim = emotions
DBTs remove the HUGE BIAS that makes for great exagerations and flawed conclusions. I do not read a post from the likes of yourself worrying about these great exaggerations, hmmmm....I wonder why. If you truely are sitting on the fence on the topic then do not pick one side of the arguement.
Do you want to comment on how someone should go about listening tests. Should they properly control that test? Like level match, like remove the ability to see which product is being tests?
Im not sure about your comments on attention....If you need to get personal then maybe this discussion isnt for you.
Im also not here to prove anything since there I have all of the sane experts in my corner, I have 100s of DBTs confirming our data and I believe DBTs to be a very effective way in controlling the huge bias audiophiles obviously have.
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Nice spin
The thread is on complete track, this goes to the heart of the whole cable debate.
So you are saying the "I hear a difference" posts are not proof at all? I would agree with that and that is what we have been saying.
Those who post "I hear a difference" would disagree because they believe it is proof enough that there is a difference. Are you saying anything different?
Let me ask you this, do you think your AudioQuest King Cobra cables are better then others?
What cables could I compare them against, if I choose to buy them?
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I think you are reading it wrong then. We are not the ones acting like victims.
posting saying someone is a victim = emotions
Pointing out the obvious childish behavior from many of the objectionists is rational and not emotional.
Emotional is where people attack things that were actually not even said and insulting people as a form of debate. Please try and get it straight.
Do I type with a lisp? They've been posted and you've been told repeatedly.
My answer was about directional cables. Still, you've raised an interesting point. Perhaps its not the wire thats directional, but the cable covering around the wire! Maybe thats it: its the arrows on the plastic coating that affect the sound quality, not the internal wire!
A true revelation.
Nope, its not the arrows. Keep reading, you will get it sooner or later.
I think you are reading it wrong then. We are not the ones acting like victims.
posting saying someone is a victim = emotions
Seems to me you are the only ones doing exactly just that
Which is the major part of this thread
I dont care much about this subject, one way or the other
But I do care about members behaviour
And I can only state the "objectivitists" in here often post in a very aggressive manner
Hmmmm.....you posted this....
"
Hopefully now the thread canget back on track and we can stop arguing about imaginary stuff."
Which one do you want...on track or a little back and forth (I can do either, Im big, bad, successful and will thrown down whenever you want
)
For crying out loud. Hi Fi News did a cable double blind last year, Sept 2009 if I recall, that 'claims' to have been statistically significant non-null. It's not better or worse than the null tests I've seen posted, so given the thousands of lines you've spilled here so far are you sticking to your principles and proclaiming this settled?
You guys really need to educate yourselves better on what's been said and done.
Can you point out where any of us posted victim comments....called anyone childish, etc?
We simply ask for measurement and controlled listening tests.
yeah, we already know your position on DBTs!
Im not sure who you are though, do you have some credentials to validate your opinion and maybe an actually paper or two? or is it just opinion and I will continue to follow the better know audio researchers out there.
I have no problem being convinced but you have not done a good job yet.
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Who's "you guys"?
Sorry, that I'm that ignorant and don't know every single word that gets written about audio like you do. Would you mind sending me this article?
P.S. Is this HiFi News you're talking about? http://www.hifinews.co.uk/
Is this the kind of peer reviewed publication you were talking about in several posts (could have used the word "spilled" but that would have been disrespectful).
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No and no. If you presume to castigate people here hours a day, do due diligence and learn the field. The Floyd paper Markus posted demolishes many of the points both of you have made and its tone is remarkable for the consistent appeal to large unknowns in perceptual knowledge, a startling contrast to the 'we know everything' from you two.
Doug20 consistently ignores that measurements have been posted. Your forms of debate leave no clue what it is you hope to achieve from this.
Doug20 consistently ignores that measurements have been posted. Your forms of debate leave no clue what it is you hope to achieve from this.
Last 20 pages have zero measurements data...sorry Im still missing it. If you know where it is or you have it handy then re-posting it would be a little more proactive then banter about who has a clue and who doesn't. Im still looking for your credentials too....
Nothing in Floyds work concludes DBTs are useless.....That would be amazing consdering Harman lives by them.
Also will you answer the following.
If you guys believe DBTs are horrible then what do you suggest people do when setting up a listening test?
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