I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

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#983
A fairly major statement that. Somewhat difficult to implement also. Nonetheless for truly 'un-coloured' sound this would be the way forward, but I feel we would miss some of the enthusiasm found through exploring different designs. I say this based on what I understand you to mean that there really should be only one topology for sources/amplifiers/loudspeakers.
Do I understand you correctly?

Gareth
 
#984
analog_sa said:


This is the type of claim which only gives more and deserved fuel to objectivists.

Your perception of a FR change does not in any way mean there is an actual FR change. While i agree that cables sound astonishigly different, in tonal balance as well, to suggest that this is the result of a simple measurable change in FR is beyond naive. And why involve a mike, speakers and a room anyway?
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Beyond naive? Hey, tone it down a bit! So you think that burn-in changes can never affect the FR. Have you any evidence for THAT claim?

Obviously the "harshness" or the "graininess" I notice is not a simple FR change, but when I hear that the bass and mid bass have all but disappeared how can that happen without an FR change?

I don't have to do this you know - I can just duck out of this forum and enjoy my music in my pathetic "beyond naive" state. It's all burned in now anyway thank goodness!
 
#985
Alan Hope said:


..... but when I hear that the bass and mid bass have all but disappeared how can that happen without an FR change?

.....
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:bigeyes:

Bass almost disappeared??

I find such statements beyond belief! Plugging in a piece of wire and two connectors can almost remove all frequencies below (say) 200Hz? and then they come back again!!

Tht would be measureable with a wet finger! How can any engineer believe that?

I wish someone could explain it to me, and I mean -30dB at 200Hz.
 
#986
gareth said:


A fairly major statement that. Somewhat difficult to implement also. Nonetheless for truly 'un-coloured' sound this would be the way forward, but I feel we would miss some of the enthusiasm found through exploring different designs. I say this based on what I understand you to mean that there really should be only one topology for sources/amplifiers/loudspeakers.
Do I understand you correctly?

Gareth
Click to expand...

See what professional audio does. For controlled interfacing, they have a standard. XLR 600 Ω. This does not lead to one topology. Ip protocol does not standardize your processor.
But if MC cartridge manufacturers produce any kind of output impedance and output level on a whim, how can you optimize a phono stage for the market? It has to have 2-3 variable user tweakable parameters just to interface well. The average user has to understand how a phono stage works as much as SY then, so to really optimize and not fool around.
As for rights in to playing with coloration, thats a hobby ideal, I understand it, but it will not help this discussion. No reference, is automatically no science. And reference must be transparency.
 
#987
Alan Hope said:
Obviously the "harshness" or the "graininess" I notice is not a simple FR change, but when I hear that the bass and mid bass have all but disappeared how can that happen without an FR change?
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Alan, I'm not so sure that you will measure a difference in FR, with my amplifiers, I've experienced large differences in perceived bass without changing the FR.
 
#988
HI salas,
Understandably there are design specifications that are met by different manufacturers, obviously as it would be mayhem on the sales floor. But I understood that if you standardized topology then all cables would sound the same, no?

Gareth
 
#989
salas said:
In my view, the audio cables would have been far less diverse as filters , if the home audio interfaces were standardized.
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Salas, I've listened to cable of the same topology but different conductor material (copper and silver) and that influence the sound, so I'm not convinced that the interfaces make (all) the difference.
 
#990
gareth said:
HI salas,
Understandably there are design specifications that are met by different manufacturers, obviously as it would be mayhem on the sales floor. But I understood that if you standardized topology then all cables would sound the same, no?

Gareth
Click to expand...


Wrote it before. Far less, means not 'same'. We can cut on 'proper' filtering parameters.

salas said:


In my view, the audio cables would have been far less diverse as filters , if the home audio interfaces were standardized.
Click to expand...
 
#991
Andre Visser said:


Salas, I've listened to cable of the same topology but different conductor material (copper and silver) and that influence the sound, so I'm not convinced that the interfaces make (all) the difference.
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I did not talk materials. That's another state. That is why I wrote 'far less'.
 
#992
salas said:

But cables is an ongoing process, not an old myth. People do change cables everyday. They must be getting some sonic change. Its highly probable at least.
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It's far, far more probable that they believe they are experiencing a change, not that one is actually taking place.
salas said:
I remember the electronics professor in my tech uni saying 'everything in analog electronics is a filter'.
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Sure, but the degree of filtration effects by audio cable unless there is some gross and overt mismatch will be negligible.

I find 'burn-in' of cables to be hilarious.
 
#993
salas said:



Wrote it before. Far less, means not 'same'. We can cut on 'proper' filtering parameters.
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Again, a rigorous and quantifiable test with clear definitions needs to be devised to solve this argument as I feel it is one that will never go away, probably even after scientific investigation.

Perception is the key word here too. As I have stated before unless the conductor changes its atomic state then there can be no such thing as burn-in. I know that my cables are running way cooler than 800C.

Gareth

Edit.. but I suppose if Simon Cowell and his gang found their way into my sytem then temperatures would probably exceed that😀
 
#994
Brett said:
It's far, far more probable that they believe they are experiencing a change, not that one is actually taking place. Sure, but the degree of filtration effects by audio cable unless there is some gross and overt mismatch will be negligible.

I find 'burn-in' of cables to be hilarious.
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It could be, but even in mass delirium, someone wakes up by chance and knocks the others with his elbow. Something is going on with cables. It takes serious investigation. First to secure the phenomena, and then analyze the mechanisms.
 
#996
salas said:
It could be, but even in mass delirium, someone wakes up by chance and knocks the others with his elbow. Something is going on with cables. It takes serious investigation. First to secure the phenomena, and then analyze the mechanisms.
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The delusion is not mass, because the purchasers are physically isolated from one another. Wake up! cable effects are trivial and burn in non-existent.

How is it that we are capable of measurements of incredible resolution, but cables simply defy these measurements, and no one ever proposes anything to reasonably use as a substitute?
 
#997
Brett, make an experiment. Do you have some Belden or Canare or Mogami XLR, same length, handy? Or whatever make, just different maker. Get a mic wired up and feed it to a desk. Have someone you really know his voice to sing a bit. Just change the wire. Get him to sing again. Is his tone indistinguishably the same? Get some others from the crew to say their opinion if you can.
 
#998
The differences in the individual performances in each test will swamp out the cable differences.

* I have tons of Belden and (mostly) Mogami mic and instrument leads here. I have never heard a difference even in controlled comparisons such as using a CD as source, which will at least be identical, unlike someone singing.

What measurements do you propose to show a difference between cables?
 
#999
No, the tone is tone. You can do it live. You know a Shure from a Sennheiser, you know George or John. George is far more uncompressed and unprocessed and familiar than Linkin Park.

P.S. If you see back in the posts, I say there must be something, not there is something. I also say there must be scientific approach at last in the industry about cable phenomena (humancentric or not) so to have a technical basis or a final conclusion. Be it positive or negative.
I am just open, not conclusive.
Asking me about measuring audible differences in cabling is like asking a tourist for the ancestors of the locals. I am not a cable investigator.
I just make logical way.
 
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