pxr, 10 meter, wow!
My speakercables are about 1-1.5 meter (with close to one meter internal wire ontop of that) and there´s no question as to the differences to me or anyone else that have listened.
/Peter
My speakercables are about 1-1.5 meter (with close to one meter internal wire ontop of that) and there´s no question as to the differences to me or anyone else that have listened.
/Peter
carlosfm said:
Well said. IMHO cables makes a difference, there's no doubt about it.
On the other hand I have a hard time understanding the silly prices
and the even more silly theories the so called high end cable companies
are pushing. And that people are actually buying them .
It might be that a lot of people have a negative feeling about the concept that
different cables sound different because of the silly prices and theories that the
"high end" companies are pushing.
That IMO should not prevent people from accepting the truth
( or let's be kind and say : the possibility )
that different cables might actually make a difference in sound.
To state that cables can't possibly sound different and that it is all in our heads
is exstremely close minded, I think.
It is interesting to watch this debate from the sidelines, so to speak,
but I have a hard time taking some of this seriously.
cheers, all
changes
just switched hifi off, went shopping, bought food and some wine, rushed around 'cause i like this debate. got back put hifi on, listen live radio 4. sound has changed, more than if i'd swapped cables.whats changed?
time, memory, blood pressure.(power on/off!)
all these things can happen when doing cable tests.
this can only be resolved with a big meet, and some serious betting on what we say.
just switched hifi off, went shopping, bought food and some wine, rushed around 'cause i like this debate. got back put hifi on, listen live radio 4. sound has changed, more than if i'd swapped cables.whats changed?
time, memory, blood pressure.(power on/off!)
all these things can happen when doing cable tests.
this can only be resolved with a big meet, and some serious betting on what we say.
Jan,
Leave the ol for a moment, OK😉 ?
Seriously, assuming that indeed cables do sound differently, aren't you stark raving mad that many cable manufacturers are so incompetent that they cannot make cables that are transparent, regardless of the price, and are getting away with it big time?
Jan Didden
Leave the ol for a moment, OK😉 ?
Seriously, assuming that indeed cables do sound differently, aren't you stark raving mad that many cable manufacturers are so incompetent that they cannot make cables that are transparent, regardless of the price, and are getting away with it big time?
Jan Didden
janneman said:
Jan, Supra's goal when they developed the Ply series of cables was to make a very low inductance cable.
These are Supra's words.
I have Supra's catalog, and they don't mention the capacitance, which I'm sure on the Ply cables it's very high.
Cable capacitance has more inpact on sound than inductance, and that's why this cable gives such a weird results, depending where it is used.
But it never excels, it is easily beaten by much cheaper cable.
Ply cables are good filters.😎
Use them on bright sounding systems, they will turn them "smoother".
Of course this is not the right approach, as one has to attack the source of the problem.
EDIT:
Jan, get real.
The maket has everything, for all tastes.
Just because a product is commercialized, does it mean it has to be good?
Yes, Supra makes cables since the 70's.
carlosfm said:
... so we agree that it is an incompetently engineeering product, sold on marketing strength, perhaps? Assuming that it IS audible, which I still haven't seen proven. Remember the HiFi+ test? Hah!
Jan Didden
carlosfm said:[snip]EDIT:
Jan, get real.
The maket has everything, for all tastes.
Just because a product is commercialized, does it mean it has to be good?
Yes, Supra makes cables since the 70's.
Fully agree with that Carlos. But I believe that the market supports all those different cables because someone is convincing someone else that this or that is better.
I DO believe that the experiences that you described above are your honest perceptions. I DONOT believe that you would have the same perceptions in properly controlled blind tests.
Why do I have this believe? Because until now all properly controlled blind tests I have seen/read support my believe.
Jan Didden
carlosfm said:
It IS clearly audible.
But you don't believe my words, so it's useless...
I DO believe your words. See post 707
Jan Didden
business
when working in the seedy business of making a living from audio kidology and unusual transaction occured.
we received a letter asking for the best hifi system we could supply.
our recommendation was pretty much based upon big profit but also with the idea that this stuff we'd sell should be good as well
anyway the customer ended up with kef speakers (107 or some refrence series £2000) yamaha cd player(!) sme v arm, a turntable (not linn, think pink triangle, was 15 yr ago),shure cartridge, amp either audiolab or yamaha not sure and cables at £100 a shot, and some others.
it wasn't my sale, and certainly the components left a lot to be desired. (i'd have had those kef r107 though).
customer sent letter thanking us greatly for giving such grest satisfaction.
about a year latter we noticed almost all of this equipement up for sale 2nd hand, at much reduced price. must have realised that better could be had.
no
the poor fella had kicked the bucket and it was his inherities flogging off what amounted to a dying mans last dream.
now
i ask you what would you do with all the money in the world?
when working in the seedy business of making a living from audio kidology and unusual transaction occured.
we received a letter asking for the best hifi system we could supply.
our recommendation was pretty much based upon big profit but also with the idea that this stuff we'd sell should be good as well
anyway the customer ended up with kef speakers (107 or some refrence series £2000) yamaha cd player(!) sme v arm, a turntable (not linn, think pink triangle, was 15 yr ago),shure cartridge, amp either audiolab or yamaha not sure and cables at £100 a shot, and some others.
it wasn't my sale, and certainly the components left a lot to be desired. (i'd have had those kef r107 though).
customer sent letter thanking us greatly for giving such grest satisfaction.
about a year latter we noticed almost all of this equipement up for sale 2nd hand, at much reduced price. must have realised that better could be had.
no
the poor fella had kicked the bucket and it was his inherities flogging off what amounted to a dying mans last dream.
now
i ask you what would you do with all the money in the world?
janneman said:
Come here, close my eyes and change the kimber 4TC cables by the Supras at your will.
What can I say?
janneman said:
"Stark raving mad" is overdoing it a bit I think.
But yes, I do find it a bit strange.
I have read,
while standing behind the shelves at the magazine salesplace
( OK I confess )
( what do you actually call that, the place they sell glossy hifi mags?)
some interviews of cable manufacturers , explaining their pet theories
to the "very knowledgable" journalist....................
So, Yes, I see your point.
But I am also surprised that you don't thrust yourself more.
cheers
Re: business
I used to have the pink triangle. I picked it over the LP12 for its natural uncoloured characteristic. Did you work in AudioT in West Hamstead btw?
The Butcher
pxr5 said:
I used to have the pink triangle. I picked it over the LP12 for its natural uncoloured characteristic. Did you work in AudioT in West Hamstead btw?
The Butcher
slowmotion said:
Every manufacturer has it's ways of seeing things and we even have carbon interconnects.
No shield, braided, paralleled, whatever, each one says his approach is better.
In what to believe?
Are you guys believers of commercial catalogs?
Audio mags?
Life is a neverending learning journey.
slowmotion said:[snip]But I am also surprised that you don't trust yourself more.
cheers
Yes that sometimes bothers me.
The other day I put in a new amp, that battleship AR D400MKII I just fixed for my friend. Like my system came alive! I liked it, I spend the whole night going through my favorite CD collection. I mean, just a beauty of an amp, and man, did that inside look like very great competent, no holds barred engineering!
20 output transistors per side! And I had fixed it, without a schematic! I felt like the proverbial dog with 7 handles.
... of course it sounded great! But I knew, I knew...
Jan Didden
carlosfm said:
Every manufacturer has it's ways of seeing things and we even have carbon interconnects.
No shield, braided, paralleled, whatever, each one says his approach is better.
In what to believe?
Are you guys believers of commercial catalogs?
Audio mags?
Life is a neverending learning journey.
You may think whatever you want but there are good reasons why those manufacturers do these things. It is because it helps sales. Remember the article by Floyd Toole of Harman? The biggest, nicest, shinest speakers got the highest points. Whatever you believe.
Jan Didden
Re: business
I would buy diyAudio and get rid of all those believers, hehehe. Finally a proper audio engineering forum. Hahahahaaaa
Jan Didden
pxr5 said:
I would buy diyAudio and get rid of all those believers, hehehe. Finally a proper audio engineering forum. Hahahahaaaa
Jan Didden
carlosfm said:
Are you guys believers of commercial catalogs?
Audio mags?
No , I see commercial catalogs and glossy audio mags more as entertainment,
it's sometimes great fun to read the pet theories of the cable manufacturers 😉
That was not what the post was about, tho 😉
carlosfm said:
I agree. When you stop learning you might just as well lie down and die.
cheers 😉
hey butcher,
no, WILMSOW AUDIO, WILMSLOW (HI RENT )
BOY DID WE HAVE SPEAKERS.
LOUD AND ALL
got second hand mitchell transcription, unipivot etc for £90 part exchange. for cosmetic reasons. customer bought dual cs505, fair exchange!
perks
cd convert now
no, WILMSOW AUDIO, WILMSLOW (HI RENT )
BOY DID WE HAVE SPEAKERS.
LOUD AND ALL
got second hand mitchell transcription, unipivot etc for £90 part exchange. for cosmetic reasons. customer bought dual cs505, fair exchange!
perks
cd convert now
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