Re: I love when people agree with me.
Koinichiwa,
Akuna Matata.
You are not possibly using TRANSISTORS to listen to music...
Actually, semiconductors must be semiconducting to work, but yes their PN layers tend to be jolly ditry to.
I think what I ultimatly wish to say is:
Cables sound different. The differnences I have observed cannot be explained sufficiently just by RLCG parameters. Crystal structures and oxide layers would be one good guess, though I'll happily accept irrefutable proof that "it ain't neccesarily so"...
Sayonara
Koinichiwa,
ThomasLMcLean said:
Akuna Matata.
ThomasLMcLean said:
You are not possibly using TRANSISTORS to listen to music...
Actually, semiconductors must be semiconducting to work, but yes their PN layers tend to be jolly ditry to.
I think what I ultimatly wish to say is:
Cables sound different. The differnences I have observed cannot be explained sufficiently just by RLCG parameters. Crystal structures and oxide layers would be one good guess, though I'll happily accept irrefutable proof that "it ain't neccesarily so"...
Sayonara
More Follow On
What would be the effect of a non-magnetic metallic cyclinder around a microphone cable ?.
Eric.
What would be the sonic effect of that ?.Steve Eddy said:
What would be the effect of a non-magnetic metallic cyclinder around a microphone cable ?.
Eric.
Re: Re: I love when people agree with me.
A good guess based on what though? Good guesses are usually based on at least something that's been fairly well established. The effects of crystal structures and oxide layers so far seem to have only been "established" in the form of empty claims made in cable marketing literature. I hope you're not basing your good guess solely on cable marketing literature.
I've tried to find some explanations as to how exactly crystral structures and oxide layers would aversely effect signal transmission but so far all I've had were some buzzwordss tossed in my face.
So why are crystal structures and oxide layers a good guess?
Now, dielectric effects are well known and have been fairly well established as well as psychological effects. These would certainly qualify as good guesses. Have either of these been ruled out?
se
Kuei Yang Wang said:
A good guess based on what though? Good guesses are usually based on at least something that's been fairly well established. The effects of crystal structures and oxide layers so far seem to have only been "established" in the form of empty claims made in cable marketing literature. I hope you're not basing your good guess solely on cable marketing literature.
I've tried to find some explanations as to how exactly crystral structures and oxide layers would aversely effect signal transmission but so far all I've had were some buzzwordss tossed in my face.
So why are crystal structures and oxide layers a good guess?
Now, dielectric effects are well known and have been fairly well established as well as psychological effects. These would certainly qualify as good guesses. Have either of these been ruled out?
se
Re: More Follow On
Ok, the free trial period is over. My consulting fee is $150US per hour, 1 hour minimum. For your convenience, you may remit your payment via PayPal to sales@q-audio.com.
se
mrfeedback said:
Ok, the free trial period is over. My consulting fee is $150US per hour, 1 hour minimum. For your convenience, you may remit your payment via PayPal to sales@q-audio.com.
se
SY said:
Yeah.
I used to be shareware. But the greedy little bastards never paid.
Then I tried a nagware version of myself and was surprised how much nagging people will put up with as long as they don't have to pay.
So I'm currenty giving the limited time demo version a go.
Nah. Just switching tracks to avoid another trainwreck.
se
BACK ON TRACK....
Hi,
And saying it was one of those monocrystaline trains...🙂
Steve, or anyone else for that matter,
Have you ever tried to use magnetwire for that dreadlock cable?
It would eliminate surface oxidation and should be less capacitive, it also needs to be solid core...which is probably what you use already?
Greetings from the Amtrack guy formerly known as the blind Shaolin priest,😉
Hi,
And saying it was one of those monocrystaline trains...🙂
Steve, or anyone else for that matter,
Have you ever tried to use magnetwire for that dreadlock cable?
It would eliminate surface oxidation and should be less capacitive, it also needs to be solid core...which is probably what you use already?
Greetings from the Amtrack guy formerly known as the blind Shaolin priest,😉
Re: BACK ON TRACK....
Dreadlock cable? What do you mean? You mean that quad braid of four quad braided strands using wirewrap wire?
<center>
<img src="http://www.q-audio.com/images/quadlitz2.jpg">
</centeR>
That one?
If so, no. I ultimately preferred the single quad braid and just went with that when I switched to magnet wire.
This is what I'm using now:
<center>
<img src="http://www.q-audio.com/images/magnetwire1.jpg">
</center>
And a bit closer shot:
<center>
<img src="http://www.q-audio.com/images/magnetwire2.jpg">
</center>
30 gauge, single build magnet wire.
Uh... Amtrak guys are blind too. All you did was change clothes. 🙂
se
fdegrove said:
Dreadlock cable? What do you mean? You mean that quad braid of four quad braided strands using wirewrap wire?
<center>
<img src="http://www.q-audio.com/images/quadlitz2.jpg">
</centeR>
That one?
If so, no. I ultimately preferred the single quad braid and just went with that when I switched to magnet wire.
This is what I'm using now:
<center>
<img src="http://www.q-audio.com/images/magnetwire1.jpg">
</center>
And a bit closer shot:
<center>
<img src="http://www.q-audio.com/images/magnetwire2.jpg">
</center>
30 gauge, single build magnet wire.
Uh... Amtrak guys are blind too. All you did was change clothes. 🙂
se
Hi,
Yes, Rastafari...that one.
Although I wasn't aware it was made of wirewrap wire...
If I may ask, what are the materials used? Conductor and insulator?
No surprise there, it should sound better.
If you like what silver does, you may want to try that too...I even like it better.
Provided you can tell where your own system deviates from the sonic truth and don't blame the cable it can bring you a few steps closer to Shaolin Nirvana.
Good to know, I'll never take the train in the U.S....errr...Am I the emperor now?
Cheers,😉
Yes, Rastafari...that one.
Although I wasn't aware it was made of wirewrap wire...
If I may ask, what are the materials used? Conductor and insulator?
No surprise there, it should sound better.
If you like what silver does, you may want to try that too...I even like it better.
Provided you can tell where your own system deviates from the sonic truth and don't blame the cable it can bring you a few steps closer to Shaolin Nirvana.
Good to know, I'll never take the train in the U.S....errr...Am I the emperor now?
Cheers,😉
fdegrove said:
30 gauge silver plated OFHC with Tefzel insulation.
For me, silver's really only worked in small doses. I've tried a couple of pure silver interconnects and speaker cables (I used to have a bunch of Kimber AGSS wire) and I've always gone back to copper.
I don't assess blame. I just go with whatever works for me.
How 'bout the Impaler? Frank the Impaler. Has a nice ring to it. 🙂
se
Re: Follow On
It would be like a common-mode choke. If you measured from one end of the cable to the other there would be an increase in inductance, but if you shorted the two wires at the far end and measured the inductance between the wires at the near end there would ideally be no difference with or without ferrite.mrfeedback said:
Free Advice ?.
So in other words, for a dynamic microphone connected to a balanced input, the FR should not change ?.
What about some kind of non-magnetic but conductive sleeve ?.
Are you able to measure/cofirm this for us ?.
Eric.
Thanks Graham,Circlotron said:
So in other words, for a dynamic microphone connected to a balanced input, the FR should not change ?.
What about some kind of non-magnetic but conductive sleeve ?.
Are you able to measure/cofirm this for us ?.
Eric.
Re: Re: Re: I love when people agree with me.
Koinichiwa Eddy San,
To me both are ruled out, as I have (for example) madeamsolute identical cables (down to a tolerance in length of +/-1mm and great care to make all connections the same etc.), one in silver and one in copper (magnet wire).
They sounded very different, even under limited blind conditions. I find "silver sound" very identifiable and did not used to like it. By avoiding mixing Silver & Teflon the sounds remains with the positive attributes of silver and non of the negative ones. I hope soon to change all wound components (Transformers) in my system to silver wound.
Now about the only thing I could credit with being able to make a material difference in sound between cables with practically identical parasitics, dielectric materials and so on (and having excluded psychoacoustics) is the crystalstructure and the intercrystal boundaries plus other imperfections and there critically the difference between copperoxide and silver oxide.
I have also tried homemade "multistrand" silver cable (uninsulated silver, several strands twisted together), it sounds just fine, without the "multistrand fog & grain" I hear with copper multistrand wire.
If it is NOT the differences in electrical behaviour of the oxide, what is the responsible part?
Sayonara
Koinichiwa Eddy San,
Steve Eddy said:
To me both are ruled out, as I have (for example) madeamsolute identical cables (down to a tolerance in length of +/-1mm and great care to make all connections the same etc.), one in silver and one in copper (magnet wire).
They sounded very different, even under limited blind conditions. I find "silver sound" very identifiable and did not used to like it. By avoiding mixing Silver & Teflon the sounds remains with the positive attributes of silver and non of the negative ones. I hope soon to change all wound components (Transformers) in my system to silver wound.
Now about the only thing I could credit with being able to make a material difference in sound between cables with practically identical parasitics, dielectric materials and so on (and having excluded psychoacoustics) is the crystalstructure and the intercrystal boundaries plus other imperfections and there critically the difference between copperoxide and silver oxide.
I have also tried homemade "multistrand" silver cable (uninsulated silver, several strands twisted together), it sounds just fine, without the "multistrand fog & grain" I hear with copper multistrand wire.
If it is NOT the differences in electrical behaviour of the oxide, what is the responsible part?
Sayonara
Koinichiwa,
I "excluded" that part as the difference was quite audible under blind conditions, leading me conclude I was not imagining things.
Sayonara
SY said:
I "excluded" that part as the difference was quite audible under blind conditions, leading me conclude I was not imagining things.
Sayonara
Valid tests are not easy to set up. Your use of the phrase "limited blind conditions" suggests strongly that you didn't set up a valid test. If you truly want to know what's going on, a real test might be something to try.
If you just want to satisfy yourself, then don't bother, use the wire you want, but then it's also not worth bothering with quasi-scientific hypotheses.
If you just want to satisfy yourself, then don't bother, use the wire you want, but then it's also not worth bothering with quasi-scientific hypotheses.
[COLOR=red] Subjectivist Viewpoint "WARNING"[/COLOR]
Hi Kuei,
In my subjective (that word again !) experience along similar lines to yours, I have found that silver plated, high purity copper does not go well with teflon insulation.
This wire non-insulated (air-spaced) sounded to my ear much less 'hard', although a degree of detail emphasis remained.
In more recent experiments, to my ear I have found that lead and silver together are sonically wrong.
To my ear, lead-free tin/silver solder is fine with copper, silver-plated copper or silver, but lead containing solders do not go well with any silver, whether in the solder alloy, or joining silver containing leads.
Eric / - The Aurally Observant.
NB - These are subjective viewpoints only, and have been derived from extensive experimentation, listening and comparisons, and any discussion of psychological bias or other placebo mechanisms is strictly uninvited.
These findings are given in order that similarly open-minded and clearly hearing members can compare experiments.
To the 'measurements-only' inclined brigade - These are empirical findings, and are advanced in order that sensible correlations be found (or not), and then scientific measurement methods be derived to find the physical cause of these observations that are not currently sufficiently explained by conventional theory.
Hi Kuei,
In my subjective (that word again !) experience along similar lines to yours, I have found that silver plated, high purity copper does not go well with teflon insulation.
This wire non-insulated (air-spaced) sounded to my ear much less 'hard', although a degree of detail emphasis remained.
In more recent experiments, to my ear I have found that lead and silver together are sonically wrong.
To my ear, lead-free tin/silver solder is fine with copper, silver-plated copper or silver, but lead containing solders do not go well with any silver, whether in the solder alloy, or joining silver containing leads.
Eric / - The Aurally Observant.
NB - These are subjective viewpoints only, and have been derived from extensive experimentation, listening and comparisons, and any discussion of psychological bias or other placebo mechanisms is strictly uninvited.
These findings are given in order that similarly open-minded and clearly hearing members can compare experiments.
To the 'measurements-only' inclined brigade - These are empirical findings, and are advanced in order that sensible correlations be found (or not), and then scientific measurement methods be derived to find the physical cause of these observations that are not currently sufficiently explained by conventional theory.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.