Hi All,
I decided to break out this thread from the Motor control because on that, there were good ideas as to how to improve the Hurst motor.
I feel like it would be great if experts here could come out with a "simple" DIY for the very common Hurst Motor to make it quieter.
In the other thread it was suggested to change the inner sleeve with Teflon sleeve brushing from this souce:
igus® Plastic Plain Bearings: iglide® J
Is that a viable solution given that the company makes hundreds of sizes and also pieces of Teflon can be easily manufactured online (also possible group buys can be specifically made given the wide distribution of these Hurst motors across many manufacturers).
Is it possible to improve mechanical noise of the Hurst Motor? A lot can be done with the dual phase control, but even with that, I can still hear mechanical noise coming from the shaft.
Or other possibility is there any replacement, higher quality solutions, to this standard motor?
I hope this thread can be of a interested to many people.
I decided to break out this thread from the Motor control because on that, there were good ideas as to how to improve the Hurst motor.
I feel like it would be great if experts here could come out with a "simple" DIY for the very common Hurst Motor to make it quieter.
In the other thread it was suggested to change the inner sleeve with Teflon sleeve brushing from this souce:
igus® Plastic Plain Bearings: iglide® J
Is that a viable solution given that the company makes hundreds of sizes and also pieces of Teflon can be easily manufactured online (also possible group buys can be specifically made given the wide distribution of these Hurst motors across many manufacturers).
Is it possible to improve mechanical noise of the Hurst Motor? A lot can be done with the dual phase control, but even with that, I can still hear mechanical noise coming from the shaft.
Or other possibility is there any replacement, higher quality solutions, to this standard motor?
I hope this thread can be of a interested to many people.
The motor itself doesn't make any humming noise.
The only noise I can hear seems to come from the shat rubbing against something...which I would love to get rid of that saddle noise!
The only noise I can hear seems to come from the shat rubbing against something...which I would love to get rid of that saddle noise!
molykote 33 medium grease is perfecto for shaft to bush lubrication. it ain't cheep but its one of the best. a tube should last you a lifetime and then some..lol
have you checked to make sure that the pulley is not to low and rubbing?
have you checked to make sure that the pulley is not to low and rubbing?
Steafno, before you waste weeks trying to remove a small physical motor noise, you should probably measure the noise from the motor and see if there is any breakthrough to the stylus at the same frequency. There probably isn't, belts are very good at this... ;-)
If you can see the motor rubbing noise at the stylus then it's worth dealing with, otherwise it's just a distraction.
Probably quicker to oil the bearing and think about it later when you are struggling with putting the right sideways load on your stiff mylar tape!
If you can see the motor rubbing noise at the stylus then it's worth dealing with, otherwise it's just a distraction.
Probably quicker to oil the bearing and think about it later when you are struggling with putting the right sideways load on your stiff mylar tape!
Thank you guys for your replies.
The motor is brand new so my question is: does a motor need to be oiled when new? Shouldn't it come pre oiled already?
Regarding checking if noise is picked up...I think that is a wise advice! I haven't tried to measured the noise of the system...unfortunately my phono is being worked on and waiting for hopefully a final prototype....
The motor is brand new so my question is: does a motor need to be oiled when new? Shouldn't it come pre oiled already?
Regarding checking if noise is picked up...I think that is a wise advice! I haven't tried to measured the noise of the system...unfortunately my phono is being worked on and waiting for hopefully a final prototype....
is the pulley fitted and if so who fitted it?
if there is no pulley on and motor is fresh out box try lightly pushing on the shaft at the bottom while its spinning. does that cure the rubbing?
sometimes the bushing moves in transit or while fitting the pulley and is just a case of pushing the bushing back up till it goes into place. i have done this a few times while fitting pulleys.
if there is no pulley on and motor is fresh out box try lightly pushing on the shaft at the bottom while its spinning. does that cure the rubbing?
sometimes the bushing moves in transit or while fitting the pulley and is just a case of pushing the bushing back up till it goes into place. i have done this a few times while fitting pulleys.
Oh then I might not know how to fit the pulley. I put it on. What is the bushing?
Maybe I don't have the pulley fitted well enough.
Anyway, which manufacturer makes the best AC motor I can try to buy as a replacement part?
there is a small brass ring encapsulated in plastic on the bottom of the motor that surrounds the spindle, this is the bush. if you fitted the pulley without supporting the spindle at the bottom chances are you have moved the bush out of position. no need to worry as you just take a small plastic stick like a cotton bud without the cotton on and use that to push the bush back in. the bush can sometimes go back in off centre so you need to fiddle till its centred on the shaft again. don.t worry you wont do harm. this is the biggest reason people fit spindle support to the bottom of their AC TT motor.
now the question about what is the best AC motor you can buy. well its not a question of the best it's a question of what one is right for your TT. looking at the Hurst motor its identical to all the other AC TT motors out there. for what its worth i don't think your going to get any better. the Hurst is designed for 110/60htz/300rpm straight off where all the rest are 110/50htz/250rpm but it makes no odds as the 110/50htz ones will run at 300rpm when fed 60htz and this is why the UK pulleys are different sizes to the US pulleys.
IIRC the ones you want to stay away from are the Philips motors as i think they draw more current and are not kind to the power supply.
the AC motor that most manufacturers of TT's use is this one
have you thought about going DC instead?
oohhh BTW i have never been able to replace the bush without resorting to taking the motor apart which is a right PITA.
now the question about what is the best AC motor you can buy. well its not a question of the best it's a question of what one is right for your TT. looking at the Hurst motor its identical to all the other AC TT motors out there. for what its worth i don't think your going to get any better. the Hurst is designed for 110/60htz/300rpm straight off where all the rest are 110/50htz/250rpm but it makes no odds as the 110/50htz ones will run at 300rpm when fed 60htz and this is why the UK pulleys are different sizes to the US pulleys.
IIRC the ones you want to stay away from are the Philips motors as i think they draw more current and are not kind to the power supply.
the AC motor that most manufacturers of TT's use is this one
have you thought about going DC instead?
oohhh BTW i have never been able to replace the bush without resorting to taking the motor apart which is a right PITA.
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The days of industrial quality motors in most consumer products are likely over. Realistically thinking, a motor that is selling to the consumer for $75.00 probably didn't cost more than $30.00 to make. Everything is made to be as cheap, not as good as possible in most cases. If you want really good motors, I'm afraid the price is going to be way more expensive than the one at the end of that link. A quality motor might be the size of a large orange. Does that previously mentioned $30.00 mean $30.00 worth of materials? No. Materials and labor, with labor probably being 1/2 the cost of the motor.
I understand what you are saying and it makes total sense. Now it's all about of making things work good enough and cheap.
In my case, I don't care if the motor costs much more nor if it this as big as an orange because I will build a custom pod for it as long as it is an AC low Voltage Synchronous motor.
If you can make some recommendation I will look at it and see if it's doable 🙂
Thanks.
In my case, I don't care if the motor costs much more nor if it this as big as an orange because I will build a custom pod for it as long as it is an AC low Voltage Synchronous motor.
If you can make some recommendation I will look at it and see if it's doable 🙂
Thanks.
Hi Stefano, I recently got two 120 VAC Hurst motors and was very unhappy with the noise. It was almost as if they didn't have quite enough clearance internally and would sometimes make a ticking noise. Oiling the bearings seems to help temporarily, but I think the excess oil was just floating the shaft to a better more centralized position. The marked capacitor value was far from optimum for minimum vibration and the 400V caps supplied aren't really sufficient for the voltage that appears across them. Just not the same as old USA made product.
Hi Conrad...so nice to hear from your again.
In order to minimize the vibration on the motor, you will have to use a dual phase controller. Forget about the capacitor which works only for one frequency if properly chosen and will not work for the other.
Beside that I strongly recommend the 24V AC motor.
For the noise, all 3 motors from hurst I have make the same noise probably makes too.
Can that be fixed in your opinion? I would be so curious to know if there is a very good motor, more suitable for this application.
Here on the market there are TT that range on the price of a nice car. What motor do they use?
For instance the TW Acoustic has a nice external AC motor (although I don't know what it is) and looking a bit around I would expect the only external 3 motors unit to be over $3K! I understand they outrageously overcharge, but they must be using a better motor than the simple Hurst, don't they?
I would love to know what it is and try to do a DIY version of that external motor
If you have any idea.....let me know 🙂
In order to minimize the vibration on the motor, you will have to use a dual phase controller. Forget about the capacitor which works only for one frequency if properly chosen and will not work for the other.
Beside that I strongly recommend the 24V AC motor.
For the noise, all 3 motors from hurst I have make the same noise probably makes too.
Can that be fixed in your opinion? I would be so curious to know if there is a very good motor, more suitable for this application.
Here on the market there are TT that range on the price of a nice car. What motor do they use?
For instance the TW Acoustic has a nice external AC motor (although I don't know what it is) and looking a bit around I would expect the only external 3 motors unit to be over $3K! I understand they outrageously overcharge, but they must be using a better motor than the simple Hurst, don't they?
I would love to know what it is and try to do a DIY version of that external motor
If you have any idea.....let me know 🙂
I can't help with low voltage motors. My thoughts lead to 1800 rpm 120v motors used in the past on broadcast quality TTs. Many of these, I suspect have ball bearings, though some have sleeve bearings. I do have some Bodine motors with sleeve bearings. I suspect it would be quite a chore to adapt to the VPI package.
Thanks!like I said I wouldn't adapt it to the VPI's envelope but I would build a dedicated external pad for it, so motor can be any form factor.
A side note: I bought a SOTA vacuum table that was disclosed as a ticking sound coming from the motor. (Papst)
I noticed too much up and down clearance compared with another same table.
There is a small set screw made out of a plastic material that adjusts it's height internally
Putting one drop of acetone to break the seal, I was able to stop the noise and screw it in enough to stop the noise and center the rotor internally.
Too bad the hurst motors don't have any outside adjustments to stop the ticking.
Any way to pull it apart and check the thrust washer?
Regards
David
I noticed too much up and down clearance compared with another same table.
There is a small set screw made out of a plastic material that adjusts it's height internally
Putting one drop of acetone to break the seal, I was able to stop the noise and screw it in enough to stop the noise and center the rotor internally.
Too bad the hurst motors don't have any outside adjustments to stop the ticking.
Any way to pull it apart and check the thrust washer?
Regards
David
Interesting. Basically the papst motor is just like the hurst motor if I am not wrong, which brings to my original question if motor can be upgraded to perform better.
Maybe the modifications they make to the stick motor are not doable unless you are the manufacturer and have proper equipment.
I don't know...
Maybe I can just buy a different motor. Otherwise I don't know how to pull the motor apart! I can do that if somebody can guide me through a bit.
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