Yep, I've been cutting up an extension cable for years, use it for almost everything except signal cable! cheep cheep
Twas one on a reel, still cheaper
Twas one on a reel, still cheaper
Anyone played with the wiring sold for direct burial, low voltage outdoor lighting? While solar garden lights are becoming more popular, I doubt it's as easy to get zone and timing control as with hard wired.
A couple of months back, I added a new pair of small subs in an upstairs system, and as the local home hardware stores didn't sell "speaker" wire in bulk, or in small rolls of appropriate size.length, I just bought a pair of 25ft #14 2 conductor indoor extension cords and hacked off the ends. It was green jacketed and even ridged on one conductor for easy polarization.
I know I'm never gonna exceed its electrical rating , and would like any of my audio tweakoid friends to detect the difference in a blind test.
Now for real fun, howsabout we discuss the sonic differences between tinned bare wire, spades, bananas, and the various metal alloys promoted by the marketeers of audio bling products in the latter two categories - well, actually, if we include tinned wire, then we need to chatter on about the sound of solder.
A couple of months back, I added a new pair of small subs in an upstairs system, and as the local home hardware stores didn't sell "speaker" wire in bulk, or in small rolls of appropriate size.length, I just bought a pair of 25ft #14 2 conductor indoor extension cords and hacked off the ends. It was green jacketed and even ridged on one conductor for easy polarization.
I know I'm never gonna exceed its electrical rating , and would like any of my audio tweakoid friends to detect the difference in a blind test.
Now for real fun, howsabout we discuss the sonic differences between tinned bare wire, spades, bananas, and the various metal alloys promoted by the marketeers of audio bling products in the latter two categories - well, actually, if we include tinned wire, then we need to chatter on about the sound of solder.
I would expect buried cable carrying mains voltage to be armoured. = 3 cores + armour.
Are there any rules about buried mains cables?
Are there any rules about buried mains cables?
Does this mean mains cable to get buried? Then we should strongly follow the TS's suggestions 😀!
Best regards!
Best regards!
Yes, buried mains cable has to be armoured, I've used it in one of my previous lives as a gardener, it is a real pig to work with, has special end glands, it's more like working with gas pipes.
No, chrisb did not mean buried MAINS cable, but "low voltage" as in 12V from a transformer, as I've bolded below:
Not sure what "zone and timing control" has to do with anything, especially with audio, but I've bought this stuff in 12-2 stranded (okay, 12 gauge is probably overkill except for the longest speaker runs) for under 50 cents a foot and used it for speaker cable. Works as well as (or depending on the capacitance and inductance added in the high-dollar stuff, much better than) the purpose-marketed stuff at a several orders of magnitude higher price. In the USA, compare the Lowe's and Home Depot prices for the total length you want. Best value is usually a big roll of 250 feet.
It's amazing how cheap you can get an extension cord for thesedays.
Yes, Ben is exactly correct, and I did once again wander off target a bit by talking about zone /control and timing as relates to low voltage outdoor/landscape lighting - which certainly has nothing to do with audio.
Direct burial cable that I've used for that function is definitely not armoured or shielded, but the type I bought from Home Depot at least 20years ago does have a thicker insulation than most zip wire / "lamp cord"
Direct burial cable that I've used for that function is definitely not armoured or shielded, but the type I bought from Home Depot at least 20years ago does have a thicker insulation than most zip wire / "lamp cord"
> I would expect buried cable carrying mains voltage to be armoured.
In the US(!), we bury a lot of plastic cable.
If I want to run a circuit to my shed, I use UF-B buried 18" down (deeper under driveway).
The main service cable from my meter-pole is similar to Triplex UD, supposedly down 18". Scads and scads of this stuff is buried in the best housing developments. Sometimes in duct, but very often just plowed in.
Yes, backhoes/JCBs seek-out underground cables. My sad experience is that armor or conduit won't stop a wanton hoe. Higher risk cable can be run in duct with concrete over.
In the US(!), we bury a lot of plastic cable.
If I want to run a circuit to my shed, I use UF-B buried 18" down (deeper under driveway).
The main service cable from my meter-pole is similar to Triplex UD, supposedly down 18". Scads and scads of this stuff is buried in the best housing developments. Sometimes in duct, but very often just plowed in.
Yes, backhoes/JCBs seek-out underground cables. My sad experience is that armor or conduit won't stop a wanton hoe. Higher risk cable can be run in duct with concrete over.
NO, no, no.
God help you and anyone else that comes across use of cable like this used in such an application.
This is why I loathe working as an Electrician in the domestic field.
Heavy Industrial is far safer due to no old DIY stuff lurking ready to kill.
Why would you use this unless you got it for free?
You are dealing with mains wiring here, even if it is an appliance supply cord.
This must comply to Australian Standards.
No two ways around it.
The Earth cable is of prime concern.
The size of Earth and Active conductors is also of serious concern.
1. The colour of insulation of this Earth conductor MUST be either Green/Yellow or Green ONLY.
Use of any other colour is NOT COMPLIANT.
Note: Due to some types of industrial grade insulation the colour is limited and Yellow is permitted. The use of colour Yellow was changed to White for Active phase ID prior to my commencement of apprenticeship as an Electrical Fitter / Mechanic back in 1977.
2. The use of Green / Yellow for anything other than an Earth conductor is PROHIBITED.
Note: You find idiots using heatshrink over Earth conductors on 3 core cables as a switched active sometimes - ILLEGAL
3. The size [cross sectional area] of the Earth conductor should not be less than any Active or Neutral conductor in flexible appliance cable like this.
Note: Earth conductor in mains cables with Active larger than 2.5 sq mm [4, 6, 10, 15, 25, 35, 50, 70, 95, 120, 150 sq mm and larger] starts to reduce in size.
4. Aside of the NON COMPLIANT Earth ID in this cable pictured, the insulation voltage rating MUST COMPLY to Australian Standards.
It was .6/1kV for many years but this has been lowered to 600V.
Cable made for 'extra low voltage [ i.e.<32V ] automotive use does NOT comply to this .6/1kV rating.
Note: Now lower Standard of 600V has created issues for Solar Panel installers due to typical output voltages exceeding 1000V DC in even small scale array installations. So, installers have to buy special cable simply due to penny pinching argument over cheap plastic thickness on the damn wire lowering the Standard.
Economic rationalisation gone mad.
5. Australian and New Zealand wiring rules dictate all Fixed [wiring in walls] and Flex cables MUST comply to Australian Standards.
If you really want to upgrade supply cables to audio equipment due to some perceived lacking in current capacity consider this:
Your outlet supply is possibly somewhere between 230 - 250 V AC.
A flexible cable with 1 sq mm conductors will carry 10A safe even if 3metre long. That is a 2300 to 2500 Watt load.
Whats the size of that Amp your connecting with that tiny 1 sq mm cable?
Your extension cable is maybe 1 - 1.5 sq mm conductor... a long decent 15A lead will be 2.5 sq mm.
I've used 6 sq mm flex cable in Industrial applications.
In W.A. I've data logged 254V overnight in a rural backwater subject to daytime industrial loading that draws supply voltage down to 230V... a consequence of no auto tap change gear on high voltage substations to maintain close supply tolerance.
Here in S.E Melbourne tonight I see 242V.... was 246V testing transformer recently.
As far as 'shielded' A.C. flex supply cables goes, the 'screen or shield' is more often intended for mechanical protection than RF screening, however I have encountered cables on microprocessor based control equipment used in the power generation/distribution/protection and military sectors where supply integrity is of far higher relevance than a consumer market audio equipment.
Sorry, I don't wish to suggest deal with here is of the 'pissant' rating, but the cable you have there has NO merit in any application you could ever encounter in a home.
Perhaps maybe... just maybe, it would be of relevance in a commercial application, but more so in an industrial sector, and even so only of very limited application demand due to cost.
There should be a Law limiting retailers flogging the equivalent of audio 'snake oil' like this, especially when it is not compliant for use like mains wiring.
God help you and anyone else that comes across use of cable like this used in such an application.
This is why I loathe working as an Electrician in the domestic field.
Heavy Industrial is far safer due to no old DIY stuff lurking ready to kill.
Why would you use this unless you got it for free?
You are dealing with mains wiring here, even if it is an appliance supply cord.
This must comply to Australian Standards.
No two ways around it.
The Earth cable is of prime concern.
The size of Earth and Active conductors is also of serious concern.
1. The colour of insulation of this Earth conductor MUST be either Green/Yellow or Green ONLY.
Use of any other colour is NOT COMPLIANT.
Note: Due to some types of industrial grade insulation the colour is limited and Yellow is permitted. The use of colour Yellow was changed to White for Active phase ID prior to my commencement of apprenticeship as an Electrical Fitter / Mechanic back in 1977.
2. The use of Green / Yellow for anything other than an Earth conductor is PROHIBITED.
Note: You find idiots using heatshrink over Earth conductors on 3 core cables as a switched active sometimes - ILLEGAL
3. The size [cross sectional area] of the Earth conductor should not be less than any Active or Neutral conductor in flexible appliance cable like this.
Note: Earth conductor in mains cables with Active larger than 2.5 sq mm [4, 6, 10, 15, 25, 35, 50, 70, 95, 120, 150 sq mm and larger] starts to reduce in size.
4. Aside of the NON COMPLIANT Earth ID in this cable pictured, the insulation voltage rating MUST COMPLY to Australian Standards.
It was .6/1kV for many years but this has been lowered to 600V.
Cable made for 'extra low voltage [ i.e.<32V ] automotive use does NOT comply to this .6/1kV rating.
Note: Now lower Standard of 600V has created issues for Solar Panel installers due to typical output voltages exceeding 1000V DC in even small scale array installations. So, installers have to buy special cable simply due to penny pinching argument over cheap plastic thickness on the damn wire lowering the Standard.
Economic rationalisation gone mad.
5. Australian and New Zealand wiring rules dictate all Fixed [wiring in walls] and Flex cables MUST comply to Australian Standards.
If you really want to upgrade supply cables to audio equipment due to some perceived lacking in current capacity consider this:
Your outlet supply is possibly somewhere between 230 - 250 V AC.
A flexible cable with 1 sq mm conductors will carry 10A safe even if 3metre long. That is a 2300 to 2500 Watt load.
Whats the size of that Amp your connecting with that tiny 1 sq mm cable?
Your extension cable is maybe 1 - 1.5 sq mm conductor... a long decent 15A lead will be 2.5 sq mm.
I've used 6 sq mm flex cable in Industrial applications.
In W.A. I've data logged 254V overnight in a rural backwater subject to daytime industrial loading that draws supply voltage down to 230V... a consequence of no auto tap change gear on high voltage substations to maintain close supply tolerance.
Here in S.E Melbourne tonight I see 242V.... was 246V testing transformer recently.
As far as 'shielded' A.C. flex supply cables goes, the 'screen or shield' is more often intended for mechanical protection than RF screening, however I have encountered cables on microprocessor based control equipment used in the power generation/distribution/protection and military sectors where supply integrity is of far higher relevance than a consumer market audio equipment.
Sorry, I don't wish to suggest deal with here is of the 'pissant' rating, but the cable you have there has NO merit in any application you could ever encounter in a home.
Perhaps maybe... just maybe, it would be of relevance in a commercial application, but more so in an industrial sector, and even so only of very limited application demand due to cost.
There should be a Law limiting retailers flogging the equivalent of audio 'snake oil' like this, especially when it is not compliant for use like mains wiring.
Yeah.... but this stuff is at at voltage lower than 32V so it's "extra low voltage", not "low" here.
Any installation or servicing of equipment above 32V here is controlled by trade licensing provisions.
The wire gauge and insulation thickness has more to do with voltage drop over long cable runs and mechanical protection.
Put simply, any idiot can legally work on that stuff because the risk is "low''. Low Voltage systems have High risk.... and those high voltage aerial cables, well image how high a risk 1.1kV, 2.2kV let alone 500kV feeders have!
Please no.
Lets leave that to old gun fanatics who spend huge $$$ on expensive old analogue gear who really can't perceive the difference super high end gear can deliver due to age hearing loss and use of hot rods, noisy bikes and firearms....
More amusement to just watch the snake oil salesmen and afford ridicule for the ridiculous.
Shhh - my sarcasm was obviously not clear enough, and apologies for confusing the issue at hand here, which is mains voltage level. While there's more than enough pseudoscience expounded as regards to cabling on both sides of the amplifier, those on the speaker side could rarely be considered life threatening if poorly executed.
No worries, I saw how you were not suggesting use of cable designed for Extra Low Voltage use in a Mains level appliance application.
Hey, I'm using Cat. 6 network cable for speaker cable currently - no problem.
Just quoted that to point out why that cable is made so... for a specific application that probably exceeds volt rating of the insulation. It's endorsed approval for use in a Mains application is the issue.
And the amusing audiophoolery marketers.
Shan't mention the on the way to being deaf gun owners again.
And yes, Burning Down the House melody came to mind looking at the subject cable in OP.
Such cable looks like it is made for a very specific use, and I suspect it's being sold 'off prescription'.
Silver plated copper is common in aviation and Naval installations. If thats PTFE insulation it's most certainly aviation.
Hey, I'm using Cat. 6 network cable for speaker cable currently - no problem.
Just quoted that to point out why that cable is made so... for a specific application that probably exceeds volt rating of the insulation. It's endorsed approval for use in a Mains application is the issue.
And the amusing audiophoolery marketers.
Shan't mention the on the way to being deaf gun owners again.
And yes, Burning Down the House melody came to mind looking at the subject cable in OP.
Such cable looks like it is made for a very specific use, and I suspect it's being sold 'off prescription'.
Silver plated copper is common in aviation and Naval installations. If thats PTFE insulation it's most certainly aviation.
Funny you should mention CAT6 cable for speaker wire - I've been using actually CAT5 for at least a dozen (?) years, including some of those insane Chris VenHaus braiding formulas - if you didn't already have incipient arthritis before you started on a 30ft pair....
For a while we were using strictly the Plenum rated version, which cost more, and the Teflon or equivalent insulation on individual conducgors made it a royal pain to work with / strip - mind you, the insulation never melted back or smoked when soldering.
It even makes for very cheap interconnect cables and signal wiring in amps and pre-amps.
But, back to the topic of mains voltage levels- which we need to remember in many jurisdictions is as high as 240V - an accident with which will really wake you up- if it doesn't kill you.
For a while we were using strictly the Plenum rated version, which cost more, and the Teflon or equivalent insulation on individual conducgors made it a royal pain to work with / strip - mind you, the insulation never melted back or smoked when soldering.
It even makes for very cheap interconnect cables and signal wiring in amps and pre-amps.
But, back to the topic of mains voltage levels- which we need to remember in many jurisdictions is as high as 240V - an accident with which will really wake you up- if it doesn't kill you.
The word 'insane' is a common theme, be it interconnect, speaker OR Mains cable usage.
I've done a bit of light aircraft wiring using PTFE insulation. There are special tools available to strip that use a hot wire rather than knife edge to cut back. No loss of any core strand - No solder cable joining!
I have a neat little stripper for telecom/network wire work... strips these single strand wires quick and neat.
The rigid 4 strand termination maybe OK for banana plug termination, but one set of speakers I use here [EVID 6.2] have those loathsome spring loaded clamps, so I crimp join a short piece of soft flex stranded wire to the Cat. 6 which sits better in that type of connection.
Pity the EVID didn't have the screw clamp termination installed... not 'cheap' to change.
Yes, but remember, it's not uncommon to find some homes use more than one of a 3phase street supply, and not uncommon to find DIY work in homes.
So here in Oz, that means a room can have 415V presenting between different outlets or even at a lamp switch location.
Due to load balancing of supply phases you could have different circuit lamps fed by different phases, in which case it's mandatory to have different switch plates at the same wall location. This can happen when Interior and Exterior timed/light level circuits are fed by separate CB's on different phases in a distribution board. More common than not in multi-phase installations.
Last home [my own using 2 phases] I rewired was this way [5 power / 2 lighting circuits] and all sub-station control rooms I've wired are configured this way.
My three homes have all been connected to a three phase supply, 415Vac.
The UK has rules to protect users of both single phase and three phase installations.
The most significant new rule (in place for some years) is that all electrical wiring modification must be done by a qualified electrician.
The UK has rules to protect users of both single phase and three phase installations.
The most significant new rule (in place for some years) is that all electrical wiring modification must be done by a qualified electrician.
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