Lets not forget the box has outside as well, affecting the short wavelengths right above the bass region where one needed the internal volume for. This is the bread and butter, how to make a construct that measure and sound good. Crossovers and bass alignment is the trivial part in comparison since we have very good tool for them, VituixCAD. Coming up with a construct (including transducers) that does not plague the midrange with issues (resonances, diffraction, breakup, directivity, what have we) is something that takes lots of time 🙂 Reduce some issues on every project and eventually there is none left ;D
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There's a typo
The Depends option should have read... "Depends- I'm curious about alternative practices, or I could suggest better practices"
It's all group effort, and we can all learn. As long as you have a growth mindset...
Mods can you change it?
An undertaking like this is like a book or magazine serial. With such limited interest I’m not sure whether it's worthwhile committing to this. My time might be better documenting some recent projects...
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Do continue by all means. Maybe the simplest way is to document the design procedure of a project of yours in a step by step (in detail) approach a la Kimmosto. The gap between the classic on-axis-measurements-only and the 5 degree dual channel VituixCad/Kimmosto approach is huge.
My haunch is most here on DIYA are not even aware of the more advanced design methods, let alone the complexity of VituixCad.
My haunch is most here on DIYA are not even aware of the more advanced design methods, let alone the complexity of VituixCad.
If you are assessing the level of interest by the number of views or replies, I think that would be misleading. Once the thread has some real content, some "meat" in it, I think there will be a high level of interest.
I am planning on documenting the design / simulation / measurement process for my current project, which is at the cabinet assembly phase. Before I start taking horizontal and vertical polar responses of each driver, my plan is to document the preliminary VituixCad simulations which enabled the cabinet design. I was hoping to use this thread as a reference so I would not have to document everything. So I truly hope you continue with this thread.
j.
I agree. I've been pushing the three dimensional crossover here for more than a decade and some are quite reluctant. However for some these days it's all they talk about... It used to be just a handful of members with the inclination to work most of it out for themselves. 😉
There is another opening, I've noticed many don't understand the benefits and are surprised to learn of them. For example, so many assume multi angle measurements are there for multiple listeners and vertical measurements are there for when you are standing. Without that knowledge maybe it's easier to settle for a single axis crossover.
You could show the link in your signature line.. and the offer is still open to collate relevant posts in order so you get the start of the thread uninterrupted.
There is another opening, I've noticed many don't understand the benefits and are surprised to learn of them. For example, so many assume multi angle measurements are there for multiple listeners and vertical measurements are there for when you are standing. Without that knowledge maybe it's easier to settle for a single axis crossover.
You could show the link in your signature line.. and the offer is still open to collate relevant posts in order so you get the start of the thread uninterrupted.
I think that directivity has entered the stage as a parameter. But it seems its mostly just a technical aspect that everyone wants to "control" - what the directive should be and what results it gives is less discussed and even understood I think. As you perhaps indicate. The forum structure in itself doesn't really encourage discussion about hearing and impact of room etc - it is very technical implementation oriented, and so will the technical discussion naturally also be. A 24 hour clock would be nice also 🙂
I think a lot of the discussion is from people that are progressing in this area. I suspect there are far less members that know what it's like to have a speaker perform correctly, and while in a room, than you might think.
P.S. We have the 24 hour clock listed. It may take some time though. You're certainly not the only member who wants this.
P.S. We have the 24 hour clock listed. It may take some time though. You're certainly not the only member who wants this.
Discussing directivity effects is near impossible. From the sparse room pictures posted, one can at least come to one solid conclusion: no room is alike.
So even 2 exact same speakers in two of our member's homes are going to give wildly different impressions.
And then there is the matter of listeners preference. That's going to vary to from one member to the next. I think the best one can do is spread the awareness
of how much we hear a room. Even though even that will get troublesome because of our brain that is capable of hiding the room from us without us noticing it.
Until we hear the difference it can make.
The Room Acoustics & Mods part of the forum still has limited traction. There isn't a real interest in it, while it truly is a vital part of our listening pleasure. If that's
why one is in this hobby. When it was created I was hoping it would be placed next to the Full Range and Multi-way forums to increase the number of visitors.
I don't know if a guide is the best way to get the information across. I'd say to @tktran303 to create an elaborate thread on his favorite pair of speakers, with the
design philosophy in twined into the thread, explaining the choices made. Even if that is lots of work, it might inspire more people to try some of these things
themselves. At least I hope so.
therein lies the dilemma.
due to multiple moves I have had six living rooms in eight years.
I can attest that the room makes all the difference. We DIYers know this; but what the high end marketplace wants consumers to do is to go a continual cycle of upgrades/sidegrades.
If anyone wants to check for themselves just bring their speaker into their bedroom and then into the bathroom see what happens. Or bring your speaker to your friends place or a audio club or DIY show and tell event.
Oops! What you had dialled to perfection now needs recalibration! But after that all, it sounds close to what you remember, but not quite right.
Which is my favourite speaker? Well, they depends on the room it’s in, the placement constraints, overall visual effect/impact and personal preference for tonal balance.
In the photo above. I think I like the far right, lowest speaker, just on visuals alone- better match for 55” TV and room size; typical SPL levels. even though I I haven’t even taken measurement of the driver yet.
I think I’m going to tune that to my perfection. Expectation bias?
So if I were to create a guide it would need as much space devoted to the room/room curves/EQ/treatment.
due to multiple moves I have had six living rooms in eight years.
I can attest that the room makes all the difference. We DIYers know this; but what the high end marketplace wants consumers to do is to go a continual cycle of upgrades/sidegrades.
If anyone wants to check for themselves just bring their speaker into their bedroom and then into the bathroom see what happens. Or bring your speaker to your friends place or a audio club or DIY show and tell event.
Oops! What you had dialled to perfection now needs recalibration! But after that all, it sounds close to what you remember, but not quite right.
Which is my favourite speaker? Well, they depends on the room it’s in, the placement constraints, overall visual effect/impact and personal preference for tonal balance.
In the photo above. I think I like the far right, lowest speaker, just on visuals alone- better match for 55” TV and room size; typical SPL levels. even though I I haven’t even taken measurement of the driver yet.
I think I’m going to tune that to my perfection. Expectation bias?
So if I were to create a guide it would need as much space devoted to the room/room curves/EQ/treatment.
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Maybe the final outcome is not the issue here, but rather the need of a detailed description of the journey in clear steps. The user can then at the end of the process make a final choice, mostly in terms of preferred in-room directivity.
That would be a giant leap forward. Member DaveFred went that route in the VCad thread, and encountered a number of issues on the way.
That would be a giant leap forward. Member DaveFred went that route in the VCad thread, and encountered a number of issues on the way.
That doesn't surprise me, the different directivity profile choices end up with such different sets of compromises. A write up would therefore have to be a little more specific.
Sadly I feel many audiophiles aren't music lovers. Perhaps they started out that way then got distracted by the technology.