Okay, I know how to select speakers and amps. I audition them with a piano CD (Serkin, Beethoven sonatas, Colombia) and match the sound to my Sohmer piano. Then I play some ZZ Top since Beethoven had all the bass notes pianissimo on those sonatas. I have now picked up a used band system with the best sounding speakers I've ever owned, Peavey SP2's. I have this mixer, a snake, amp, speakers, and no mikes. Mikes are all over craigslist. I've only heard one in my life I liked,it was the kind you can't buy anymore- an RCA ribbon. If I bring the mike home to test with my Steinway, I've bought it already. I have a lot of favorite recordings that were recorded with some superior mike, but what is a big secret. People have a lot of opinions- I've listened to other peoples idea of a good speaker and laugh in my car all the way home- or in the case of our church, weep in frustration. If I play any solos in church, I'm porting my sound system to the stage, none of that music committee garbage. So how do I select something decent? I can't port the Steinway to their living room. I talked to the guy at the music store, he had a lot of suggestions for bargains from that center of all consumer electronics innovation, the far east. As I am unemployed in the US and their economy is growing at 11.9% due to poor standards, poor working conditions, and a manipulated untradable currency, I am disinclined to follow his suggestions. I realize voice mikes are different than piano mikes are different from stringed instrument mikes are different from symphony mikes. I'll be doing a little voice and maybe some live piano or synth. For the synth, I don't need a mike. For speakers, good piano= very nearly good everything. So how do I test? Who has done reliable tests? Can one look up anywhere what mikes were used to make what recordings? Why are all the used mikes singles? Did the matching one die? Specific questions: What did CR Fine use on those Mercury symphonic classics? What did Colombia use on Serkin? What did RCA use on Peter Nero "When I Fall in Love" which is also great for auditioning tweeters? What did the Carpenters use for voice?
If you can find a copy of the first Stereophile Test Disc, there's is a terrific mike demo on it. Puts the questions of electronics and wires into perspective...
(wish I had some B&Ks...)
(wish I had some B&Ks...)
Mercury used Telefunkens. Similar to Neumann tubes. Look at Microtech Gefell.
They make a nice ORTF pair i use with very good results.
They make a nice ORTF pair i use with very good results.
Now you're into my territory on this (mostly) home audio forum.
You can call up a recording studio and get a list of mics they keep in their vault. Most studios are very proud of their collection and are happy to flaunt them.
Have a look at Heil microphones. Very good performance for the price. Many will say get a bunch of Shure 58's and 57's, and they are fine- but there are better.
For vocals it can be a very tricky decision. Different people have different voices and some mics do not sound right on some people. It's wise to have several you can switch to to get the best sound. Literally, there are dozens of good vocal mics.
For strings and piano you can use the same mics or use different mics since the piano is a stringed instrument. For instance right now I'm using a Schopes on violin and harp, and they are probably some of the best I've heard on these. But do consider those mics are what the NY Met Opera and NY Philharmonic uses in their pit and carry a price tag to match.
If you have the budget you really can't go wrong with DPA. Look in just about any Broadway pit and you will see many being used all over the place. Also most shows are using DPA 4061 lavs as headworn mics on the cast.
I like the Neumann KM184 or AT4050 on piano in a tape bridge hi/lo config but the piano is one of those instruments that no two people mic the same way.
Otherwise some good general use condensors like the AKG 300 and 460 with your prefered flavor of capsules or the venerable AKG C414 are a good choice. Also AT4033, 4050, and 4060 are quite good for the money.
You can call up a recording studio and get a list of mics they keep in their vault. Most studios are very proud of their collection and are happy to flaunt them.
Have a look at Heil microphones. Very good performance for the price. Many will say get a bunch of Shure 58's and 57's, and they are fine- but there are better.
For vocals it can be a very tricky decision. Different people have different voices and some mics do not sound right on some people. It's wise to have several you can switch to to get the best sound. Literally, there are dozens of good vocal mics.
For strings and piano you can use the same mics or use different mics since the piano is a stringed instrument. For instance right now I'm using a Schopes on violin and harp, and they are probably some of the best I've heard on these. But do consider those mics are what the NY Met Opera and NY Philharmonic uses in their pit and carry a price tag to match.
If you have the budget you really can't go wrong with DPA. Look in just about any Broadway pit and you will see many being used all over the place. Also most shows are using DPA 4061 lavs as headworn mics on the cast.
I like the Neumann KM184 or AT4050 on piano in a tape bridge hi/lo config but the piano is one of those instruments that no two people mic the same way.
Otherwise some good general use condensors like the AKG 300 and 460 with your prefered flavor of capsules or the venerable AKG C414 are a good choice. Also AT4033, 4050, and 4060 are quite good for the money.
thanks to all
Thanks to all for responding. When I talk about "strings" being easy to record, I'm thinking of the typical guitar-banjo-mandolin-string bass bluegrass group that is extensively recorded around Louisville by KET-TV, also the electric guitar hammond organ pop bands. None of those instruments have difficult to reproduce high frequencies, except for oddities like the Rickenbacher 12 string that the Byrds guy played. There is a lot of experience around me recording those instruments, but not much on the instruments I play. Except for the mediocher Shure SM58 and the AD, none of those mikes show up around here at the resale shop, or on craigslist. But both of those are refuges for the stuff people didn't want. Thanks for the tips, I may break down and order something new by mail from the coast. I've heard Neuman mentioned by a salesman as something I couldn't afford, but it would be a once in a lifetime purchase, hopefully. Neumans are copies of what CR Fine used, very interesting!
Thanks to all for responding. When I talk about "strings" being easy to record, I'm thinking of the typical guitar-banjo-mandolin-string bass bluegrass group that is extensively recorded around Louisville by KET-TV, also the electric guitar hammond organ pop bands. None of those instruments have difficult to reproduce high frequencies, except for oddities like the Rickenbacher 12 string that the Byrds guy played. There is a lot of experience around me recording those instruments, but not much on the instruments I play. Except for the mediocher Shure SM58 and the AD, none of those mikes show up around here at the resale shop, or on craigslist. But both of those are refuges for the stuff people didn't want. Thanks for the tips, I may break down and order something new by mail from the coast. I've heard Neuman mentioned by a salesman as something I couldn't afford, but it would be a once in a lifetime purchase, hopefully. Neumans are copies of what CR Fine used, very interesting!
Try get a hold of "MICROPHONES technique&technology" by Norbert Pawera, dated 1981. Still relevant today
There is an LP from the German Label Tacet. It´s called "Das Microphon" and the recording engineer recorded the same music with different famous microphones for comparison.
I'll be playing live if anybody is interested. My voice is very soft and has a boring timbre, but is absolutely on pitch. My console Steinway piano is beautiful tonally, but is not as loud as a grand. It moves pretty easily though in a trailer. The church seats about 350. There is no crowd noise or wind like at a bluegrass festival. The new Y****** church piano sounds worse tonally than the one they replaced, (a Kawai), and the mike they have in it hooked to the PA overhead makes it total mush. I have a nice Sony TC366 1/4 tape recorder that can reproduce any tone beautifully if one can find tape, but there is no market for anything I would produce.
Go to a store and audition a bunch of mics to find one that complements your voice. Have given this advice hundreds of times and is still more valid than any other advice. For an inexpensive mic ($48) the Peavey I2 is about as good as it gets for voice under $150 and far better than Sennheiser, Neuman, or Shure at twice that $150 price. Above that price the choices become very large indeed with the sky as the limit.
Most people do not know that famous singer like Frank Sinatra only used one particular microphone for almost all the recordings. This was the mic that sounded best with his voice. Pro's know to choose a mic that sounds good with the artist being recorded. There is no such thing as a "go to" mic for less than about $10,000. These expensive mics have a few things in common in testing. Built in compression, limited frequency response, and ability to handle large SPL input.
Most people do not know that famous singer like Frank Sinatra only used one particular microphone for almost all the recordings. This was the mic that sounded best with his voice. Pro's know to choose a mic that sounds good with the artist being recorded. There is no such thing as a "go to" mic for less than about $10,000. These expensive mics have a few things in common in testing. Built in compression, limited frequency response, and ability to handle large SPL input.
Keep tight hold of your Sony TC366. I used one for years as an editing machine. It's a real honey because the pinch roller drops away from the tape path, giving you clear access to the tape. With an EMI alloy editing block glued to the deck you're in business.
You may want to get this CD, at least to help decide on a vocal mic:
osCommerce
It's a comparison of mics for studio recording as opposed to live performance (so they're not worried about the off-axis response contributing to feedback, only how the room sound changes things), but I think the male voice tracks really bring out the differences between mics.
And of course don't use that as your your only info for making a decision, bla bla bla, all applicable disclaimers apply.
osCommerce
It's a comparison of mics for studio recording as opposed to live performance (so they're not worried about the off-axis response contributing to feedback, only how the room sound changes things), but I think the male voice tracks really bring out the differences between mics.
And of course don't use that as your your only info for making a decision, bla bla bla, all applicable disclaimers apply.
small market blues
Thanks for the advice on the Peavey it1 mike. It and the Shure 58 are probably the only mikes I could see in a store around here, and 58 is not suitable for piano. The Peavey dealer does not have a real piano, only electronic pianos reproduced through speakers, so I can't really test even that. I'm going to have to take people's opinions. There is no chance I am going to be able to hear a Neumann or Shoepe around here in the heart of the bluegrass region. I've been google searchine the nation for shoepe, and cruising the craigslist for Nashville. The one hit there was a AT 4035 single last week for $300 without mount or shock ring; that is not the 4050 recommended so I'll wait some more. It costs me $100 to drive or bus down to Nashville, and I can't take the Steinway, so I'll probably buy a piano mike blind based on your recommendations. As far as voice goes, the only famous person whose voice mine resembles is Mark Martin the race car driver. The only thing I have to offer the church is energy, pitch, and a slightly different opinion of what is wonderful than the (all female, sedate) music committee members. They may not let me up front again, but I'm retired, have time to rehearse, & it is worth a try. The chuch used to have some Telefunken clip on voice radio mikes that sounded okay, but these radio hand held mikes they are using in the new sanctuary are noticeably more boring.
Thanks for the advice on the Peavey it1 mike. It and the Shure 58 are probably the only mikes I could see in a store around here, and 58 is not suitable for piano. The Peavey dealer does not have a real piano, only electronic pianos reproduced through speakers, so I can't really test even that. I'm going to have to take people's opinions. There is no chance I am going to be able to hear a Neumann or Shoepe around here in the heart of the bluegrass region. I've been google searchine the nation for shoepe, and cruising the craigslist for Nashville. The one hit there was a AT 4035 single last week for $300 without mount or shock ring; that is not the 4050 recommended so I'll wait some more. It costs me $100 to drive or bus down to Nashville, and I can't take the Steinway, so I'll probably buy a piano mike blind based on your recommendations. As far as voice goes, the only famous person whose voice mine resembles is Mark Martin the race car driver. The only thing I have to offer the church is energy, pitch, and a slightly different opinion of what is wonderful than the (all female, sedate) music committee members. They may not let me up front again, but I'm retired, have time to rehearse, & it is worth a try. The chuch used to have some Telefunken clip on voice radio mikes that sounded okay, but these radio hand held mikes they are using in the new sanctuary are noticeably more boring.
There is nothing more boring today than these cheap wireless mics and see you know that. For the piano you may look for an early CAD E100... not the generation two but the American made generation one. Have bought several for about $100 and they "give it all" which can then be compressed and filtered for normal "human" usage. They are quiet, dynamic, and wide band having excellent highs and will take a very loud signal, 148dB.
Go here.
Fletcher should be able to help you out. Let him know what you are wanting and how much money you can spend. They have a very generous return policy. If you don't like it, send it back. You're only out a little bit for shipping. Selecting something (like microphones) is pretty much impossible to do by recommendation. They are something you have to hear to make the decision. The guys at Mercenary understand this.
Fletcher should be able to help you out. Let him know what you are wanting and how much money you can spend. They have a very generous return policy. If you don't like it, send it back. You're only out a little bit for shipping. Selecting something (like microphones) is pretty much impossible to do by recommendation. They are something you have to hear to make the decision. The guys at Mercenary understand this.
open room sound levels
I doubt even with 140 wind instruments, 130 string instruments, on stage, and an antiphonal brass choir on the balcony blasting out Parsifal at UT Austin music hall, that we the All State band + orchestra 1968 got over 105 db, except maybe when the 10' diameter bass drum was being struck. I doubt that my Steinway console piano could get over 100 db, and the only vertical piano that might be able to do 105 db was a Baldwin studio (? it was tall) I played at contest in the 1965. I've walked around a factory including the metal stamping department with the safety engineer with a calibrated SPL meter, so I have some idea of loudness. So why is it important for mikes to take such extreme spl levels? I realize rock musicians and bar customers have some different ideas, but if I even approach 100 db on the piano in church the women of the music committee are going to stare daggars at me. The main reason I need electronics, my voice is very soft and really needs help to perform. I may experiment with this Digitech effect on my voice, the timbre is so boring. I won't be using speakers behind me and I won't be using a stage monitor, I'm trained the old fashioned way where we stay synchonized by nodding or twitching, and let the sound man worry about the balance. I do have a snake for the mixer. Thanks for the recommendations, but mikes designed for acoustic music in auditoriums are what I am looking for. Thanks for the tips on new part vendors, I may have to go new but I'm hoping to try to participate in the collapse of the bar music and recording industry, that is how I got the rest of the sound system. The poorly advertised estate auction of a techno-geek, that is my idea of a good time.
I doubt even with 140 wind instruments, 130 string instruments, on stage, and an antiphonal brass choir on the balcony blasting out Parsifal at UT Austin music hall, that we the All State band + orchestra 1968 got over 105 db, except maybe when the 10' diameter bass drum was being struck. I doubt that my Steinway console piano could get over 100 db, and the only vertical piano that might be able to do 105 db was a Baldwin studio (? it was tall) I played at contest in the 1965. I've walked around a factory including the metal stamping department with the safety engineer with a calibrated SPL meter, so I have some idea of loudness. So why is it important for mikes to take such extreme spl levels? I realize rock musicians and bar customers have some different ideas, but if I even approach 100 db on the piano in church the women of the music committee are going to stare daggars at me. The main reason I need electronics, my voice is very soft and really needs help to perform. I may experiment with this Digitech effect on my voice, the timbre is so boring. I won't be using speakers behind me and I won't be using a stage monitor, I'm trained the old fashioned way where we stay synchonized by nodding or twitching, and let the sound man worry about the balance. I do have a snake for the mixer. Thanks for the recommendations, but mikes designed for acoustic music in auditoriums are what I am looking for. Thanks for the tips on new part vendors, I may have to go new but I'm hoping to try to participate in the collapse of the bar music and recording industry, that is how I got the rest of the sound system. The poorly advertised estate auction of a techno-geek, that is my idea of a good time.
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Actually even modestly sized orchestras can get really loud. Musicains unions have been raising concerns of hearing loss from playing in orchestras for a while now. Mics need to be rated to take high levels of spl due to proximity and dynamic range. A trumpet may be comfortable at 25ft, but the spl 6 inches from the mouth of the horn is quite high.
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