You are certainly entitled to your opinion. No one is denying you that.
However, your definition of what is DIY audio and what is not, is clearly at odds with the majority of people who post here. So, your attempt to define who qualifies as a DIYer and who doesn’t is taken as a direct insult to many of us.
From your comments, you apparently don’t care whether you insult us or not, so you should be prepared for a serious amount of rejection from the majority.
But the real question is why in the world did you even start this subject to begin with. It accomplished absolutely nothing useful to anyone.
I once made DIY cables. Two conductors and a length of clear PVC tubing. Cross over the top of the PVC tubing, then cross again under the bottom. Cross over and cross under, over and under until you reach the end of the length you want to make. Works for both signal - and with slightly fatter conductors, speaker cables as well.
Looking at them when finished, there's no way you can say anything except "those are obviously DIY cables"...
"If you have your speaker wires strung over a train of wooden blocks cut from a 2X4...you just might be a DIYer!"
Looking at them when finished, there's no way you can say anything except "those are obviously DIY cables"...
"If you have your speaker wires strung over a train of wooden blocks cut from a 2X4...you just might be a DIYer!"
I do not design much. I mainly repair broken stuff that I find here and there. That means finding schematics and do troubleshooting and repairs.
Strangely I can find a lot of tips on this forum. Is this not DIY? There is a lot of threads on repair here. Maybe change the name of the whole forum😉
Strangely I can find a lot of tips on this forum. Is this not DIY? There is a lot of threads on repair here. Maybe change the name of the whole forum😉
I think you need to have someone read the thread to you. You just stated in your reply "You are certainly entitled to your opinion. No one is denying you that"
I believe I have stated MY IDEAS of what DIY means to me.
Your words..."But the real question is why in the world did you start this subject to begin with. It accomplished absolutely nothing useful to anyone."
Friend... and I use that term loosely. Maybe I should get your email address or phone number or possibly your street address so that I can contact you prior to even considering putting a thread on this forum and that way you can be the judge if that topic in your opinion would be something useful and meaningful to post. I challenge you to go thru all the threads posted in the last almost 20 years that I have been on this forum and see how many fit your criteria of what a meaningful post is. I think you will be surprised that many threads posted here will not stand up to your standards. Actually maybe we need to jump forward here and your should contact the head of the forum and see if there is a moderator position for meaningful threads or maybe they would consider putting you in that spot.
You also need to keep in mind that you had the ability to make a choice of skipping answering this thread or to participate in this thread and if you deemed it offensive maybe you should have passed it by.
Sure, my ideas of what I personally consider to be a DIY project differ from yours. The way this is supposed to work is you express your ideas I express my ideas and someone else expresses their ideas. It shouldn't be that you ridicule me because I had the audacity to post a topic that you didn't like or didn't agree with.
MY ideas as I believe I have stated are as follows for those needing help with reading comprehension...
True DIY to me is a project that I have designed and or modified to suit my needs and or desires that I have painstakingly put together on my own using the skills I possess.
At this point in time you can exercise your beliefs in DIY in other words what DIY means to you instead of attacking my ideas. This is the way a forum is supposed to work and people generally accept and work with this concept. You are entirely free to state something like "DIY to me is any project that you have completed yourself." or what ever reply you feel comfortable using.
For those turning in their DIY badges well all I can say is at least you got one and that is more than I can say.
OK got it problem solved! The discussion has made clear that DIY comes in many flavors, colors and gradations of skill and execution. No need for 95% of us to be booted off the site. It's so simple...just look to the military. We need ranks and grades! Effective tomorrow your avatar will be replaced by your rank symbol from this chart. So I am maybe a corporal and NP is a General of the Army (five star). Instead of the typical "Like" and "Dislike" website buttons we'll adopt "Promote" and "Demote" buttons. Saluting an officer will be optional!
Attachments
Absolutely brilliant. Perfect solution. I want to be a sergeant major just like my dad.
Cheers
Ian
I feel like going AWOL until things settle down. Then maybe re-enlist and take another shot at bootcamp.
Less experienced builders are needed in a forum. Because they ask the kind of questions that prove just how complicated and deep any topic can be when considering all the design choices and compromises behind any seemingly nieve and simple question.
Was Edison a true DIY’er inventing stuff? After all he had assistants doing some (most?) of the actual builds.
For me all that counts is that when I solder I get Burned Fingers.
Regards, Gerrit
For me all that counts is that when I solder I get Burned Fingers.
Regards, Gerrit
To me, DIY is more of a verb than a noun... a function of ability over safety w/ regard to experience.
I started w/ a Chifi PP amp so I could focus on the most important thing first- safety. Then changed PP designs within same chassis/iron. Then created hybrid design w/ blocks of differing designs. Next phase is to test latest design w/ fct generator, loads, and O-scope; tweaking component values if needed for better match.
Point of all this is to travel the path carefully, prioritizing most important thing first. Enhanced ability will naturally occur for most over time.
Jim
I started w/ a Chifi PP amp so I could focus on the most important thing first- safety. Then changed PP designs within same chassis/iron. Then created hybrid design w/ blocks of differing designs. Next phase is to test latest design w/ fct generator, loads, and O-scope; tweaking component values if needed for better match.
Point of all this is to travel the path carefully, prioritizing most important thing first. Enhanced ability will naturally occur for most over time.
Jim
So what is it if the process was a bit slap-dash instead of painstaking?
Your definition above seems to allow for the use of a kit in a self-designed or modified enclosure (as long as the build of the enclosure is painstaking) which seems to contradict your earlier posts - is this intentional?
Is it design if you just use existing building blocks to assemble a functional circuit? thinking here of a simple voltage amp/phase splitter/pp output amp, or even a LM-based chip amp?
If one of my skills is CAD and specifying but I lack the equipment and skill to do the metalwork, is it still DIY if I design an enclosure and specify it for a contract manufacturer to make?
No need for an answer - I'm just pointing out that your definition has holes in it. This is to be expected since, as you rightly say, DIY means different things to different people and possibly different things to the same people at different times.
I'd hate to read any definition of "DIY" that steps on the wonderful offerings by Heathkit, Knightkit (etc) of the 1960s. Buy the finished good, or buy a box of parts with instructions - and learn something in the process - via "DIY".
To me, “DIY” is any activity that makes me learn something new, disregarding the complexity, from filing a round hole to designing an FPGA implementation.
Also, to have any meaning, DIY requires a minimum of understanding of the object under construction. Assembling IKEA furniture can be considered DIY, while soldering a purchased electronics kit on the kitchen table, without a multimeter handy, or any interest in Ohm‘s law is, in my book, not DIY, but just a soldering exercise that doesn’t necessary require a PCB and parts. As much as learning to screw in wood doesn’t require a kit from IKEA.
A good test for a prospective DIYer of any specialty is “why am I doing this, and what are my expectations when completed successfully (or failed)?”.
Also, to have any meaning, DIY requires a minimum of understanding of the object under construction. Assembling IKEA furniture can be considered DIY, while soldering a purchased electronics kit on the kitchen table, without a multimeter handy, or any interest in Ohm‘s law is, in my book, not DIY, but just a soldering exercise that doesn’t necessary require a PCB and parts. As much as learning to screw in wood doesn’t require a kit from IKEA.
A good test for a prospective DIYer of any specialty is “why am I doing this, and what are my expectations when completed successfully (or failed)?”.
It's not worth spending any more time going back and forth on this. You can certainly interpret DIY anyway that makes you happy, but it's quite clear from the majority of the posts here that most of us believe building something yourself is fully qualified as DIY regardless of where the design originated.
Is there any ******* contest here, and you were somehow appointed as a referee?
If I may speculate, your underlying issue is about who gets the credit for a successful implementation: the original designer or the builder. A typical theme for a ******* contest.
My answer: the builder, as long as the designer is properly cited and credited. Otherwise it’s theft, even if it’s not punishable by law. But then any designer that discloses his work in public is aware he has virtually no protection against dishonest “DIYers”, in particular when the “DIYer” has a hidden commercial agenda.
Examples available upon request. Or take a look on EBay, Alibaba.com, etc…
If I may speculate, your underlying issue is about who gets the credit for a successful implementation: the original designer or the builder. A typical theme for a ******* contest.
My answer: the builder, as long as the designer is properly cited and credited. Otherwise it’s theft, even if it’s not punishable by law. But then any designer that discloses his work in public is aware he has virtually no protection against dishonest “DIYers”, in particular when the “DIYer” has a hidden commercial agenda.
Examples available upon request. Or take a look on EBay, Alibaba.com, etc…
OK, I'm UNwatching this thread, it's long since taken its toll.
And the arguing isn't attractive.
And the arguing isn't attractive.
Perhaps the definition of DIY is doing something at the sharp end that is a bit dangerous and could have unpredictable results, leading to, amongst other things, burned fingers? So posters with monikers like 'SmoulderingHead', 'BlackenedHand', 'OneEye', 'SevenFingers', etc, would be demonstrating their gravitas.
In which case I can be 'TipOfFingerOnWoodworkRoomCeiling' from now on.
In which case I can be 'TipOfFingerOnWoodworkRoomCeiling' from now on.
Very true (for me). When I was a boy, I always kept my eyes focussed on what I was about to (de)solder, so when grabbing for the solder iron I regulary burned my fingers/right hand.
I've been following this thread with interest, and it feels to me that we are trying to find a fifth leg in a cat that has four.
In my personal opinion, DIY is something that you have to do to build (put together etc) to get to the desired result:
Fry an egg
Build a valve amplifier
Buy a valve amp and modify it.
Build a house
And so on, the list is infinite.
I think one can argue about the merits of a particular DIY, but that is also a tough one. A theoretical physicist will look down to a discovery made in experimental physics, while the experimental guy will classify a theoretical research as a bunch of papers filled with letters and numbers and of no practical value. It will be always a matter of opinion and always biased.
In my personal opinion, DIY is something that you have to do to build (put together etc) to get to the desired result:
Fry an egg
Build a valve amplifier
Buy a valve amp and modify it.
Build a house
And so on, the list is infinite.
I think one can argue about the merits of a particular DIY, but that is also a tough one. A theoretical physicist will look down to a discovery made in experimental physics, while the experimental guy will classify a theoretical research as a bunch of papers filled with letters and numbers and of no practical value. It will be always a matter of opinion and always biased.
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