hey everyone.
I just got a Canton Plus C dual voice coil passive subwoofer. Thus sub was intended to be used with the Plus S satellites with the sub connected in stereo to the amp and the satellites trough the sub with a crossover frequency of 120Hz between the satellites and sub.
I know the bass is usually mono, but they are other sounds below 120Hz that may be in stereo.
I have a Marantz SR4002 7.1 amp with analog 7.1 inputs and I was thinking of using it in 5.1 mode and connecting the sub to the remaining 2 channels with an active filter. I would probably cross the sub at 60-70Hz as the main speakers already have good bass response down to 45Hz.
I just got a Canton Plus C dual voice coil passive subwoofer. Thus sub was intended to be used with the Plus S satellites with the sub connected in stereo to the amp and the satellites trough the sub with a crossover frequency of 120Hz between the satellites and sub.
I know the bass is usually mono, but they are other sounds below 120Hz that may be in stereo.
I have a Marantz SR4002 7.1 amp with analog 7.1 inputs and I was thinking of using it in 5.1 mode and connecting the sub to the remaining 2 channels with an active filter. I would probably cross the sub at 60-70Hz as the main speakers already have good bass response down to 45Hz.
I've had one good bass speaker, and only one from 1968 to 2010, mostly crossing over at 140 Hz in that period. Granted, I have never been inclined to see what two subs might do until around 2010 when I added a single sub below my sub, read Toole's book, and espoused the theory of heterogeneity of subs.
Crossed over sharply at 140 (and using a sub that has little harmonic distortion to reveal its location), a mixed bass single channel to a single cannily located sub almost anywhere that is good for bass in your room sounds good to me. Imagine the benefits of making middle speakers that only need to handle the range from 120 or 140 up... small, clear, good dispersion, etc.
Yes, there might be lab experiments that show you can hear stereo down to 4 Hz.
I can think of reasons to favour mixing the signal and using just one amp, if powerful enough, and one good sub, but I can't think of reasons for powering the two VC segments separately.
Of course, I'd also say an audiophile would be better off with one fine mono ESL full-range speaker than two stereo cone speakers.
Ben
Crossed over sharply at 140 (and using a sub that has little harmonic distortion to reveal its location), a mixed bass single channel to a single cannily located sub almost anywhere that is good for bass in your room sounds good to me. Imagine the benefits of making middle speakers that only need to handle the range from 120 or 140 up... small, clear, good dispersion, etc.
Yes, there might be lab experiments that show you can hear stereo down to 4 Hz.
I can think of reasons to favour mixing the signal and using just one amp, if powerful enough, and one good sub, but I can't think of reasons for powering the two VC segments separately.
Of course, I'd also say an audiophile would be better off with one fine mono ESL full-range speaker than two stereo cone speakers.
Ben
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Kind of depends on whether you are satisfied with "consumer grade" home-theatre sound or aspire to HiFi status.
Likely the Marantz is terribly complicated and you may never know quite what is is doing. But OK if you can use the amps separately with an external crossover.
Real problem is it is likely has crossover slopes too shallow to be helpful in keeping bass out of mids and treble out of bass speaker(s) (which means you can't tuck them in into bass-supportive locations).
Important to relieve mids of bass and to do so high enough to be helpful. Will notich up your sound quality to do so.
Maybe I've had enough bad times with my Marantz home-theatre receiver to think there's any way to play nice with it.
Ben
Likely the Marantz is terribly complicated and you may never know quite what is is doing. But OK if you can use the amps separately with an external crossover.
Real problem is it is likely has crossover slopes too shallow to be helpful in keeping bass out of mids and treble out of bass speaker(s) (which means you can't tuck them in into bass-supportive locations).
Important to relieve mids of bass and to do so high enough to be helpful. Will notich up your sound quality to do so.
Maybe I've had enough bad times with my Marantz home-theatre receiver to think there's any way to play nice with it.
Ben
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What you're proposing should work out fine. Just because bass below 80 Hz or so may be recorded in stereo doesn't mean that you'll actually hear it in stereo when it's reproduced through your speakers. And not many tracks are mixed with "stereo bass" anyway.
I think Company B's "Fascinated" was mixed with very different bass in each channel - get your hands on a copy and give it a spin to see if you can discern any audible differences at low frequencies between the two channels. Make sure you've got the grills on the speakers so your eyes are not cueing you in as to which speaker is doing what 🙂.
I'd split audio below a certain frequency, mix into mono and drive 1 or 2 amps into both coils, parallel or separate, knowing for sure that signal is exactly the same in both.
Why play russian roulette?
Why play russian roulette?
As far as a DVC is concerned, it won't make a difference. The output is the sum of both signals anyway.
I`ve owned a dual voice coil subwoofer before. It was an active subwoofer from a 5.1 Jazz Speaker system. I did play with it a little to see the sound difference with one coil disconected (both channels of the subwoofer amp was fed by the same mono signal) and form what I`ve noticed is that with only one voice coil connected the bass was somewhat deeper. Connecting the second voice coil did make it louder, but the bass was a little more boomy.
Nice. Thanks. Not sure yet what the meaningful test is.... prolly two subs and a switch to mix 'em and unmix 'em.
Problem is when sub has slow cut-off in the Marantz and is playing lots of at 200-300 Hz. If the sub is in the middle, doesn't matter. But if in any different location, then the secret is at risk. At 12 or even 18 dB/8ave, detectable sound coming from the sub in that range. Or any harmonic distortion coming from the sub.
This kind of diminution of your stereo illiusion may be detectable but may not be bothersome.
Ben
In the real world of course the sub bass part of the spectrum is also in stereo. A bass kick drum on one side of the stage will be stronger on one channel than the other.
In the Dolby digital world the sub bass is mono.
Your choice will be governed by the source of the material.
In the Dolby digital world the sub bass is mono.
Your choice will be governed by the source of the material.
In the vinyl era, bass was traditionally mixed down into mono so that it would be encoded as left-to-right movements of the groove. There is more room for these than for the movements up and down into the body of the record that encode the stereo difference signal.
Digital media have no such restrictions, but most modern recordings still seem to follow the tradition, with the kick drum and bass guitar (or their electronic equivalents) panned centre stage. So a dual voice coil sub is a fairly safe bet IMO.
Digital media have no such restrictions, but most modern recordings still seem to follow the tradition, with the kick drum and bass guitar (or their electronic equivalents) panned centre stage. So a dual voice coil sub is a fairly safe bet IMO.
Had my sub 20 feet to the direct-left of my main speakers and never noticed any sound coming from them in 12 year of use. 140 Hz, 24 db/8ave.
Maybe in a lab setting you have some degree of bass localization down to maybe 80 Hz. But not at home on music. Perception is based on a Bayesian assessment of cues.
I'd guess it is easier to localize your siubs using residual amp noise and amp and speaker distortion products an audiophile-case of maybe -50 dB than based on pure tones below 100 Hz... just in case anybody wants to claim they can "hear" their sub's location.
Ben
Maybe in a lab setting you have some degree of bass localization down to maybe 80 Hz. But not at home on music. Perception is based on a Bayesian assessment of cues.
I'd guess it is easier to localize your siubs using residual amp noise and amp and speaker distortion products an audiophile-case of maybe -50 dB than based on pure tones below 100 Hz... just in case anybody wants to claim they can "hear" their sub's location.
Ben
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I have reported similar a few years back using a modified B950 way off to the right, outside the right stereo satellite.
Roulette indeed.
Either the speaker or the amplifiers just need one channel inadvertently reversed and the dual VC will not move. Very rapid overheating, especially when the operator "turns it up" to try to hear what is wrong.
A DVC will DEFINITELY sound different if you leave one of its coils disconnected. Qes and therefore Qts will be increased.
Exactly. And this is even more true in a car audio environment, where the subwoofer's level could be over 10dB higher than the rest of spectrum. And that's why my car audio system has 2 12" drivers. Not for the peak SPL level capability (though that can be fun at times), but for significantly reduced distortion at normal playback levels.
crossed over in the 60-70 hertz range will work. I think 80hz is the dolby standard for Home theater. If you have a crossover: can you run a high pass to your mains? If they are two- way; and your sub big enough to work alone, you will get improved midrange performance by taking the deep bass out of the program material and more cohesive bass since it will be single source.
with a 4th order crossover (why would someone use anything else ;-) @40hz. ; the bass would be attenuated 40db or so at 20hz . I also eluded to a suggestion of an 80hz crossover point. And yes the satellites would be playing mid-bass. I recommend 80hz so that the crossover frequency is not center on the kick drum fundamental of approximately 60hz.. Bass guitar lowest note is 40hz. only piano , synth and effects play lower.
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