Hellow alle,
I was just wondering what would be the best way to set t/a settings with the use of horn drivers?
Thanks in advance,
Adrian
I was just wondering what would be the best way to set t/a settings with the use of horn drivers?
Thanks in advance,
Adrian
since not many people have replied, i will take a stab at it. this is how I would set it up.
I'm going to assume that you have two independent time delay adujustments on your processor (left and right).
First, as Volenti suggested, measure the distance from your listening position to the actual horn diaphram, thru the thoat (actual pathlength).
Measure from your listening position to the dustcap of your mid/midbass driver.
Take the difference in pathlength between your horn and mid then divide by the speed of sound. Be sure to keep your units correct. i.e. if your measurement is in inches, divide by the speed of sound in "inches per second." By doing this, your result will be in seconds.
Once you have this result which will probably be in "milliseconds" use it to dial in the delay in your processor. Remember you are delaying the driver CLOSER to the listening position.
Do it for the left side and repeat for the right side. If you are really picky, you can then take the difference between the left and right side and perform the same steps to set up the left/right delay. keep in mind that doing this will yield one and only one "sweet spot" at the listening position.
Hope this helps.
I'm going to assume that you have two independent time delay adujustments on your processor (left and right).
First, as Volenti suggested, measure the distance from your listening position to the actual horn diaphram, thru the thoat (actual pathlength).
Measure from your listening position to the dustcap of your mid/midbass driver.
Take the difference in pathlength between your horn and mid then divide by the speed of sound. Be sure to keep your units correct. i.e. if your measurement is in inches, divide by the speed of sound in "inches per second." By doing this, your result will be in seconds.
Once you have this result which will probably be in "milliseconds" use it to dial in the delay in your processor. Remember you are delaying the driver CLOSER to the listening position.
Do it for the left side and repeat for the right side. If you are really picky, you can then take the difference between the left and right side and perform the same steps to set up the left/right delay. keep in mind that doing this will yield one and only one "sweet spot" at the listening position.
Hope this helps.
A sweet spot in either the right or the left seat is always better than a sweet spot in the center of the car where nobody can ever listen.
I recall seeing a processor in an audio magazine years ago where you could store two settings. one for the driver and one for the passenger. I do not recall who the manufacturer of said processor was. Alpine maybe?
If you are not using a processor, then you can mount your horns and measure their distance. Then place the mid in the kickpanel or door panel at the same distance. Kick panel is prefered though.
...and yes, I would rather have a sweet spot in the driver position instead of the middle.
If you are not using a processor, then you can mount your horns and measure their distance. Then place the mid in the kickpanel or door panel at the same distance. Kick panel is prefered though.
...and yes, I would rather have a sweet spot in the driver position instead of the middle.
thanks for the replys,
I am using the pioneer deh-880prs head unit in network mode.
I have 3,2 channel amps. One for the horns one for the mids and one for the subs.
the 880 has t/a screen that asks for the distance in inches for each speaker. so each speaker can have its own time ajustment.
I did what you said and it seems to sound pretty good. Tell me if this is what you meant. I measured with a tape measure from my nose to each dust cover. i used a diredt path as possibale with tape measure. as far as measureing the horns i basicly put the tape measure inside the body down into the throat of the horn untill it reached the 1" hole and measured streight to my nose on driver side.. seems to be okay. than i just turn on some good sounding music and listen very carefully. and ajust the t/a settings up or down a few inches on each side and just to try to tell what sounds best using my measurement as a "home" spot. the horns sound to be pretty good, most of the vocals seem to be directley in front of me, however the midbass sounds good too, the phase seems to really be smearing the image on the midbass making the entire system sound un natural and i can hear that bolth left and right sound diffrent, it sounds almost as if they have diffrent eq setting between left and right. so i tryed the trial and error and just listened. This is what i came up with so please tell me what i am doing wrong.
ok here is my speaker distances
Left horn 41.0 inches
Left midbass 46.0 inches
Right Horn 52.0 inches
Right midbass 54 inches
Seems it sounds better or at least more in phase if i leave the horns at the correct t/a settings but if i but set bolth midbass speakers at the 52.0 inch setting. Seems kinda weird that i would have the right and left midbass on the same delay plane but hey it seems to sound more in phase. But maby i am doing something wrong.
I have 6.5 inch midbass IB an the kick pannels they are not very kicked out that far.
I tryed switching phase on each speaker in almost every diffrent combonation as possibale, but seems to do best with the horns and mid bass in phase from left to right and the subs reversed phase.
Is it ok for the midbass to have the same t/a settings on bolth sides or do you thing something i am not doing correctley.
Thanks
Adrian
I am using the pioneer deh-880prs head unit in network mode.
I have 3,2 channel amps. One for the horns one for the mids and one for the subs.
the 880 has t/a screen that asks for the distance in inches for each speaker. so each speaker can have its own time ajustment.
I did what you said and it seems to sound pretty good. Tell me if this is what you meant. I measured with a tape measure from my nose to each dust cover. i used a diredt path as possibale with tape measure. as far as measureing the horns i basicly put the tape measure inside the body down into the throat of the horn untill it reached the 1" hole and measured streight to my nose on driver side.. seems to be okay. than i just turn on some good sounding music and listen very carefully. and ajust the t/a settings up or down a few inches on each side and just to try to tell what sounds best using my measurement as a "home" spot. the horns sound to be pretty good, most of the vocals seem to be directley in front of me, however the midbass sounds good too, the phase seems to really be smearing the image on the midbass making the entire system sound un natural and i can hear that bolth left and right sound diffrent, it sounds almost as if they have diffrent eq setting between left and right. so i tryed the trial and error and just listened. This is what i came up with so please tell me what i am doing wrong.
ok here is my speaker distances
Left horn 41.0 inches
Left midbass 46.0 inches
Right Horn 52.0 inches
Right midbass 54 inches
Seems it sounds better or at least more in phase if i leave the horns at the correct t/a settings but if i but set bolth midbass speakers at the 52.0 inch setting. Seems kinda weird that i would have the right and left midbass on the same delay plane but hey it seems to sound more in phase. But maby i am doing something wrong.
I have 6.5 inch midbass IB an the kick pannels they are not very kicked out that far.
I tryed switching phase on each speaker in almost every diffrent combonation as possibale, but seems to do best with the horns and mid bass in phase from left to right and the subs reversed phase.
Is it ok for the midbass to have the same t/a settings on bolth sides or do you thing something i am not doing correctley.
Thanks
Adrian
I was going to suggest reversing the phase on the mid, but it seems you did that already.
Try changing the crossover slope if possible and experiment with those settings. You said your midbass is smearing so it might be you are crossing your subs over at too high a frequency. Try over or underlapping your crossover frequencies between your midbass drivers and subs to see what works in your car.
It doesn't seem correct to have both mids delayed the same amount if they are different distances away from the listening position.
Under the passenger side footwell, are there any large flat plastic or metal areas that can cause lots of reflections? You describe it sounding much different that the driver side so it may that the driver is being loaded in some way. As an experiment, try attaching some absorbent material under the dash to dampen resonances in the footwell.
What does your setup look like? Is it all active i.e. one amplfier channel per speaker?
Try changing the crossover slope if possible and experiment with those settings. You said your midbass is smearing so it might be you are crossing your subs over at too high a frequency. Try over or underlapping your crossover frequencies between your midbass drivers and subs to see what works in your car.
It doesn't seem correct to have both mids delayed the same amount if they are different distances away from the listening position.
Under the passenger side footwell, are there any large flat plastic or metal areas that can cause lots of reflections? You describe it sounding much different that the driver side so it may that the driver is being loaded in some way. As an experiment, try attaching some absorbent material under the dash to dampen resonances in the footwell.
What does your setup look like? Is it all active i.e. one amplfier channel per speaker?
Why use horns? How else are you going to get 140 dB from the tweeters to match up with the subs? 🙂
yeah. i got some eggcrate foam and lined under dash near pedals with it and it helped some. i didnt want to go overboard with it though. wanted to keep it out of sight.
ended up setting the delay on right mid to 48 inches and left mid to 46 inches even though even though the right mid is like 56 and 46. it just makes the vocal sound allot more accurate on most tracks. I realise there are just some freq's that are going to be off a tiny bit but it sems pretty good now.
the left sounds left and right sounds right and vocals sound to be coming out of my instrument cluster. I would like a bit higher stage but for kick pannels and low mounted horns i am quite happy.
i if i turn it off the t/a left 9is left right is righ side of car instead of right and vocal is litterialy on top of my far forward dash near windshield in the dead center of car. i almost like it better that way sometimes. nice thing i can change it in about 2 sec.
i have been tuning this darn car for seems like months now. it is really quite impressive now.
thans ecu...
ended up setting the delay on right mid to 48 inches and left mid to 46 inches even though even though the right mid is like 56 and 46. it just makes the vocal sound allot more accurate on most tracks. I realise there are just some freq's that are going to be off a tiny bit but it sems pretty good now.
the left sounds left and right sounds right and vocals sound to be coming out of my instrument cluster. I would like a bit higher stage but for kick pannels and low mounted horns i am quite happy.
i if i turn it off the t/a left 9is left right is righ side of car instead of right and vocal is litterialy on top of my far forward dash near windshield in the dead center of car. i almost like it better that way sometimes. nice thing i can change it in about 2 sec.
i have been tuning this darn car for seems like months now. it is really quite impressive now.
thans ecu...
tuning can definitely take some time, which is why speaker placement is so important. you aim for getting the best possible sound out of your system without any processors. some people over use processors to cure problems that can be fixed with proper speaker placement.
as for the hight of your soundstage, one common thing to do is add tweeters to your pillars. I'm not sure which brand of horn you are using, but if you read the specs, most won't reach 20Khz, the upper limit of human hearing. Try temorarily adding some tweeters and cross them over at 15Khz or so. You probably don't need to pad them down since the horns are so efficient.
Before you invest big money in some good tweeters, go out and grab a set of cheap piezo tweeters. Here in the states, we can buy them for like 3 USD. Use a small piece of double sided tape to temporarily attach them to your a-pillars. using double sided tape will allow you to move them around. try attaching them at different heights along the pillar and also try aiming them towards the windshield and towards the listening area. it may take a couple days to determine the best spot for them. once you have determined the best location, you can permanently attach a good set of tweets.
this should help in raising the height of your sound stage.
as for the hight of your soundstage, one common thing to do is add tweeters to your pillars. I'm not sure which brand of horn you are using, but if you read the specs, most won't reach 20Khz, the upper limit of human hearing. Try temorarily adding some tweeters and cross them over at 15Khz or so. You probably don't need to pad them down since the horns are so efficient.
Before you invest big money in some good tweeters, go out and grab a set of cheap piezo tweeters. Here in the states, we can buy them for like 3 USD. Use a small piece of double sided tape to temporarily attach them to your a-pillars. using double sided tape will allow you to move them around. try attaching them at different heights along the pillar and also try aiming them towards the windshield and towards the listening area. it may take a couple days to determine the best spot for them. once you have determined the best location, you can permanently attach a good set of tweets.
this should help in raising the height of your sound stage.
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