HLCD tower speaker box

[Sdc77]

Hello everyone,
I would like to build a new tower speaker box with HLCD, low cost, high quality, high efficiency.

Here is my actual TSB : Building your own tower speaker

I now want a HLCD, to get better distance sound quality and higher SPL.

Here are speakers I choose, it can be different but they must be same dimater, high sensitivity, 4 Ohms woofers to get final 2 Ohms (woofers paralleled), same price range.

Woofers (Faital Pro 8FE200, 4Ohms) : Faital Pro 8FE200 (4Ohm)

Tweeters (PRV D230Ti-S) : https://www.parts-express.com/prv-a...mpression-driver-8-ohm-1-3-8-18-tpi--294-2822

Waveguide (Eminence APT-200s) : https://www.parts-express.com/eminence-apt-200s-90x90-1-horn-flare-1-3-8-18-tpi--290-557

Question is, can someone provide me a good scheme for crossovers, with flat response, correct frequency, tweeter attenuation, real values for components to buy etc.

Wonder if it's possible to get 12dB low pass and 18dB high pass to get better tweeter protection ?

Any recomandation is welcome

Here is what it should look like :

Thank you in advance

 

[Sdc77]

Hi,
I change a little bit my setup.


Here are speakers :
Woofer FAITAL PRO 8FE200 - 4 Ohms x2, d'appolito
Tweeter SICA CD78.26/N92
Waveguide B&C ME10


Here are all files (.zma .frd, pdf) : HLCD 1


Here is what response curve and crossover design I get :

Questions are :
- Is it a nice curve ? Something pleasant to listen ?
- Do you get same results with your crossover simulators and values ?


I used Passive Crossover Design 7

 

[picowallspeaker]

4 Ohms woofers to get final 2 Ohms (woofers paralleled)

So is it going to be a stereo setup in one single piece ?
I thought it was sort of a central channel... so my suggestion would be to choose 8 Ω instead of 4 Ω for total Z=4 Ω.
You have to look also at the impedance module.
It has to be flat as the frequency response, ideally. Amplifiers like linear loads !

Then, if it is an open (baffle) design, you have to account that in the lowpass electrical filter, as acoustically ( due to the acoustical short circuit )the lows are going to be much attenuated, so you need to reduce total efficiency - you might even not need CD for the tweeters - and use a much larger coil for lowpass.

 

[Sdc77]

Thanks for your answer.
Yes it's exacly that, it's a single box, of 30L, with a stereo setup in it, d'appolito.
My amplifier is a car one, it's stable Under 2 Ohms loads and gives 2x80 Wrms @2 ohms.
So I will stay on 4 ohms speakers.


The box can be sealed or bass reflex, I have enough place on the face to add 2 ports if it brings something.

 

[winslow]

I don't think I would do a ported enclosure for a ski boat tower speaker...or any marine application.

But that's just me.

You have subs on the boat with it?

 

[Sdc77]

Hi Winslow,
Yes I have a MTX 12" in a sealed box, Under the dash.


Here is the actual setup :


4 speakers in the boat : BOSS MR650 - 6"
4 speakers on the tower : BOSS MR695 - 6"x9"
1 subwoofer MTX RT12-04 - 12"
1 amplifier Soundstream pn5.640d (5 channel : 4x80Wrm @ 2 Ohm + 1x200Wrms @ 4 Ohm


I probably will go for a 2 x 4 Ohm coil subwoofer as soon as I build the HLCD box, as the amplifier is also stable @2 ohms on the subwoofer channel, and gives 350Wrms.


Bazooka sold vented tower speakers, and a guy already did a HLCD using those boxes and Eminence Pro audio speakers :


DIY Build PRO-Audio HLCD Tower Speakers w/PICS - Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles


I think to build a cover for the tower boxe to prevent from rain.
Speakers will be treated with "wet look" for UVs and moisture protection.


I drilled 2 holes under my actual tower box to let water escape from it, as I get bad surpise when removing speakers after 1 year, it were almost full of water !!! Surpisingly, speakers survived and are still alive and running well.


I can add ports or do a laminar port on the HLCD if it gives something interresting on SPL or bass response. If sealed is good, then no problem 😉


And you have to know that all my speakers are high pass filtered @ 100Hz from the CD player. The ubwoofer is of course Low pass ...

 

[Greebster]

D'Appolito arrays are only vertical. The side by side setup of midbass drivers seriously compounds issues like horizontal dispersion and crossover points. To remove these would have to be crossed over much lower, around ~<800. Which means a HF compression driver and horn large enough to support the bottom end of its responce eg would be 16 or so inches or bigger (off the top of my head). Your graph looks nice but how was this measured or is it a simulation of summed responces (my guess)?

Really like the finish, styling. Top notch

 

[Sdc77]

Hi Greebster,
Thanks for comments 😉


My graph is from speakers pdf. I then used "SPL copy" to extrat .frd and .zma files.
For the tweeter it's a measure with a horn on it already
For the woofer I don't know, I imagine it's a simulation in a sealed box.




It's not for listening in my living room, it's to be heared 80ft from my boat, with the delicious sound of a 454ci engine, 20mph speed etc.
I don't expect a pure hifi setup, just something clean, not tiring listening, good sound, and high SPL 😉

 

[picowallspeaker]

Ooohh, I now realize; maybe use glass fiber to make the enclosure ?
Or is it too thin ?
FOr the crossover, I find it unusual that the woofer's series inductor is of less value than tweeter's parallel coil 😱😛😀😱
Uuuuh sorry, it's for a 2 Ω load...!

 

[picowallspeaker]

Still, you have to mantain a regular load to the amp.
I don't think it's good to have low side at 2 Ω and the treble at 8 Ω.
Better use two 8Ω woofers.

 

[markbakk]

My graph is from speakers pdf. I then used "SPL copy" to extrat .frd and .zma files.

You'll have to take some kind of baffle step correction into account. Even quite simple-to-use packages as Boxsim can throw a reasonable guess on the baffle step function given a rectangular enclosure, but imho measuring the drivers in situ is the only reliable way.

 

[winslow]

His amp can do 2 ohms since it is a car based amp.

I really wouldn't be worried about baffle step. These things are going to be 8 feet in the air pointing backwards blasting some music over an unmuffled v-8 ski boat.

 

[dumptruck]

Don't go painting wet look stuff on expensive pro drivers. You don't want the extra weight on the diaphragm. Faital Pro's are already made to hold up to water anyway.

I really wouldn't be worried about baffle step. These things are going to be 8 feet in the air pointing backwards blasting some music over an unmuffled v-8 ski boat.

In other words, about as close to freespace/anechoic placement as it gets, and with a narrow baffle that will put the transition right in the mids too. I don't see why you wouldn't want full a full -6dB "step" incorporated.

 

[sreten]

Hi,

Best place for BSC here is at line level in the feed to the power amplifier.

rgds, sreten.

 

[Sdc77]

Guys, translation for the French guy please, I get 1/3 words 🙄

So, pros or cons 2 ohms load ?
Faital also build the 8FE200 - 8 ohms, so I can go for 4 ohms load, but the amplifier is only 2 x 50w @ 4 ohms.

Yes the baffle will be Forex (PVC) for the face and structure, then I stretch 300g/m2 cotton cloth and pour resin on it. It's solid enough don't worry.
It will be around 30 litres for 4 woofers.

I didn't add speaker position in my crossover design.
Woofers are 172mm axle from the tweeter on each side. Tweeter is 50mm behind woofers.

 

[winslow]

So you would be able to hear that or be concerned about it towing a skier at 30MPH with small block Chevy exhausting through the transom on top of the water with no mufflers?

And you think you could hear it being pulled behind said boat?

I know I couldn't.

Don't go painting wet look stuff on expensive pro drivers. You don't want the extra weight on the diaphragm. Faital Pro's are already made to hold up to water anyway.


In other words, about as close to freespace/anechoic placement as it gets, and with a narrow baffle that will put the transition right in the mids too. I don't see why you wouldn't want full a full -6dB "step" incorporated.

 

[Sdc77]

Guys,
Actually it has mufflers. But it's not a small block, but a big bloc, 454ci 🙂
So believe me, it's noisy.
Anyway we already hear music with the existing tower speaker and Boss MR695 speakers in it.
HLCD will give more sounds to the distance.

[vimeo]75480797[/vimeo]

 

[Sdc77]

Guys,
Actually it has mufflers. But it's not a small block, but a big bloc, 454ci 🙂
So believe me, it's noisy.
Anyway we already hear music with the existing tower speaker and Boss MR695 speakers in it.
HLCD will give more sounds to the distance.

http://vimeo.com/75480797

 

[dumptruck]

So you would be able to hear that or be concerned about it towing a skier at 30MPH with small block Chevy exhausting through the transom on top of the water with no mufflers?

And you think you could hear it being pulled behind said boat?

I know I couldn't.

If I could hear the music at all, yeah I am sure I could hear a 6dB broadband response change, and would rather have the less-screechy response. Be concerned? I dunno, v8 boats and waterskis and whatnot are kind of far from my lifestyle. Not sure I'd be trying to listen to music out there at all, but if I were going to bother to build my own speaker for it, then yeah, why not.

It's like when the cheap PA has a big wide-dispersion peak at 5k that hurts everyone's ears, but who cares because it's some distorted DIY punk band that sounds like crap anyway right? Well... sure kinda, but it still sounds better if you take down the 5k peak. The "who cares because it's not hifi anyway" arguments make sense for many issues, but a decently-even response never hurts.

 

[Sdc77]

Hi folks,


I finally built the HLCD speaker box. Basing on my system 5 :

Here is a video of the first notes of it :


http://www.vimeo.com/132618248


Here are my systems :


Sdc HLCD systems