its not so much gain differences alittle, its the individual character each manufacture has, that is way more noticeable imo. some focus on different areas of the frequency spectrum, and that transition from clean to onset of breakup and overdrive/distortion. some are darker, others are really bright, some are more hi-fi/clarity oriented, and swapiing between them its also really noticeable different harmonic content, like long plates tend to be more hi-fi I think also more prone to noise but they have and interesting clarity/harmonics, short plates to me sound a bit tighter and maybe more focused bigger bass. this is a wild generalization though, Rca short grey plates, Sylvania long plates, GE 5star 5751s, all really nice, the GE is interesting though its lower gain but I think it sounds creamier than a lot of them.
o.k.. understand...i using 3 NOS telefunken and i don't see very much different...and they say to me , the amp have low gain ..thats the design..so i think something today and i want to say to you....so check : i have 2 channels ( tremolo channel and 1st gain stage) also the 2 channels have 2 inputs each ( hi and low)....thats my thought------i take a "boost pedal" or " overdrive pedal" ( i think the behriger s cheap 🙂 ) and i put over the 1st gain hi input....from the inside of amp....is right????????????????
Real Nos Telefunken are pretty bright but very clear and really almost too Hi-fi, but really great harmonics, then RCA is warmer, then Mullard is warmer than RCA just from experience xD
A booster or overdrive is an option if you like the configuration of your amp the way it is. If you want to get creative with some switching and some wiring mods:
You have 2 preamp channels. Think about running the signal through tremolo channel and 1st gain stage. Defeat the trem, maybe lift the cathode bypass cap on one of final stage (to bring down the gain a bit) and you should have more than enough boost to overdrive the amp. We don't have a schematic of your build and don't know the plate supply volts etc..but I think you already have enough 12AX7 preamp stages to do it.
You have 2 preamp channels. Think about running the signal through tremolo channel and 1st gain stage. Defeat the trem, maybe lift the cathode bypass cap on one of final stage (to bring down the gain a bit) and you should have more than enough boost to overdrive the amp. We don't have a schematic of your build and don't know the plate supply volts etc..but I think you already have enough 12AX7 preamp stages to do it.
ie know what I mean; will add on the channel a simple Overdrive pedal
to be activated by a switch...EXACTLY LIKE WE DO THAN amplifier .. there will be indirect. will be directly.........We may create problems in amplifier;
to be activated by a switch...EXACTLY LIKE WE DO THAN amplifier .. there will be indirect. will be directly.........We may create problems in amplifier;
Be careful with tube rolling and comments on the different makes of what is ostensibly the same tube type. A good part of the sound difference is in peoples head. And almost all of the qualities attached to any perceived sound difference is in people's head.
No, you just can't hear the audible difference's like I can, sigh.... I feel bad for people that can't, wish you all could hear through my ears,
o.k. o.k.................i ask you something else....the EF86 have more gain than 12AX7?..............
The short answer is yes, small signal pentodes such as the EF86 tend to have higher gain than even high-mu triodes such as the 12ax7, but as others have mentioned, a LOT depends on how the actual circuit is set up.
I have no idea what you can and can't hear. Nor you me.
What I do know, as it's proven, is that people's hearing is influenced by their psychology, expectations, prejudices they bring to the listening experience, etc, etc. So the only way to be sure about differences in sound is through double blinded hearing tests or measurements.
The other thing I know is that how you judge any difference in sound (real or imaginary) is a matter of taste. Which doubly makes this an issue of psychology.
Obviously this is an old argument, I just chipped in because before anyone reading this thread spends money on NOS tubes over new ones, they should know there's another point of view on this.
Yes Psychology is an individual influence but still I have no predetermined expectation's for what a new subjective sound should be, I just focus on what character is very obvious or is most noticeable or jumps out at me the most, clarity or harmonics or a certain depth and complexity in certain frequency areas, lots of these techies are just that techs that have no idea or clue of real "tone". They decide in a purely technical manner without their ears guiding them, how something should sound. Honestly you won't have any idea that way, every Rig/ audio source sounds different to me, not "better" just different. Better is subjective, You have to experiment and find what you like, the technicalities are certainly good knowledge to have, but my ears will be the ultimate decision maker in the end.
And speaking of the Psychological Mind, it is truly amazing what all these tones sound like induced or under the influence of multiple substance's ha-ha. It sounds even more amazing after smoking some good Bud and like ripping a line coke, Ha-ha. Someone more knowledgeable here explain to me why that is so? Like me I can play stuff totally different like when I'm ****** up and it sounds totally different more ALIVE. lol. its pretty crazy I must say, but at least I'm being honest lol.
I won't go so far as to say that NOS tubes have any sort of "magic tone" or other audiophoolery that justifies a massive price increase, but they do tend to sound pretty damn good and seem to last a lot longer than new production tubes in my experience. But that's not nearly enough for me to justify paying hundreds for a single tube. The difference isn't nearly enough.
There are some musicians that don't do drugs but I don't know them. I can't explain to you the reasons but music sounds more real when you're stoned.
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indeed some prices of Nos are crazy because certain ones are FAR superior to current production. But if you you look around enough you can still get lots of nice Nos stuff for good deals. and yes some Nos tubes do have some "magic tone", Lots of rca and sylvania stuff as magic tone I would say, sylvania not so much but you can find some that still sound great though, damn near everything rca sounds great, the 7025/12ax7 short grey plate, love that tube lol, GE is kinda hit or miss although I do have a 5 star 5751 and it sounds pretty neat and I have an old tungsol 5751 longer plates, it is more detailed to me but not as warm as the GE etc
First post on this particular forum for me. I debated on adding my 2 cents but here goes...
I quoted Robert because I am of very similar stance and thoughts.
Over the last 40 years, since age 12, of my involvement in electronics, I have had a pretty good track record on repair work and related activities. Instrument amplification work has only been a little over 3 decades. Additionally I do perform live music on lead guitar and a lot of sitting behind a console at FOH when I am asked to mix a group over the years. So, I have a decent background in what I prefer on my guitar sounds and what I hear during mixing live audio dates.
I find humor and amazement at the "audiophools" and other related "tweak" debates and discussions, in both home audio and various musician sites online.
My thoughts of the "blind" evaluation came to mind before I quoted Robert.
Vacuum tubes of a particular number designation like 12AX7 are intended to perform to the characteristics of a "12AX7". I do agree that tubes from back in the day are many times a better quality regarding internal construction and materials. Many present day production valves can have a good quality build too, but quality control and other variables affect the end product.
When various identical number tubes are "compared" to each other, minor differences are often noted. I return to the comment of quality build. When the original specification of a particular number on a tube is altered, the performance is certainly affected by, but not limited to, composition of the internal elements, the spacing between them, how they are supported, and even the level of vacuum within the valve.
Upon reading the entire thread to this point, I saw RCA mentioned. Back in my early days (teen years), which was a large portion of television repair, one of the worst possible brands for especially power applications, like anything in the horizontal sweep section - was RCA. My father owned the sales and service business I grew up in, and eventually I began repair at a quite early age - usually stocked Sylvania and GE tubes. Some RCA audio tubes are coveted and if they are working ok, that is great. I am just recalling the vivid memories of the RCA issues...
The thread here diverted from the original poster's request for assistance with essentially lack of gain.
It is entirely correct on the statements made by others, that gain differences among similar tube types was not the solution for the OP.
I saw where it was asked for a view of the schematic of the circuit. That is what is needed for the many very qualified individuals here, like Enzo and others, to offer advice. The OP could even realize positive results for something as simple as un-bypassed cathodes in preamp stages...
In closing, I fully support any musician making their own decisions on what sounds best to them. But 99% of an audience at a live band show would not even notice the difference if the first set was performed with a cheap chinese 1st preamp and switching to a vintage Mullard or other 1st preamp de jour, for the second set. I will put up money that no one will run up to the stage gushing over the awesome difference after the second set...
And regarding a high quality recording of a guitar performance, it will usually be unnoticed to use different valves because of so many untrained ears listening via such a wide variety of playback sources, many of which would never bring out the subtle differences of that magic preamp tube.
Best wishes and carry on
Deric
e wants more gain that amp sounds like some AC30ish build never gonna have lost stand alone gain, not without adding more gain stages, just get a nice pedal and boost
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