high efficient midrange driver

[damkel]

Hello

I am fooling around with building an active high efficient speaker.
After some advice I started out with a two way using JBL 2226h and B&C de250.

I then got the idea that it should be a three way speaker hoping to further improve the sound.
Inspired by Klipsch Hersey etc. I bought a Selenium d250x and a HC 23-25 horn (which I suspect was a mistake and I am experimenting with making a Tractrix horn).
But I no matter what I do I just can't get it to sound right.
After thinking a bit and google'ng a lot I have come to the conclusion that maybe it is a mistake to use a midrange horn+driver and instead I should use a "normal" driver - but which?

I read that an Eminence alpha 8a could be a possibility but it is not exactly expensive and I have used a lot of time and money on cheap and awful sounding drivers - so I need your help...

Am I going in the right direction?
If so, I need some help choosing a driver

 

[limono]

If you have problem utilizing a horn midrange which is a natural bypass device and it can work with 1st order low pass filter a cone driver will be even more problematic to implement. 3 ways with a cone midrange are not easy to design even for experienced designers.

 

[Galu]

I read that an Eminence alpha 8a could be a possibility but it is not exactly expensive and I have used a lot of time and money on cheap and awful sounding drivers - so I need your help...

A step up from the Alpha-8A is the Delta Pro-8A.

I have no idea how well it would integrate with your other drivers or how easy it would be to make it do so!

DELTA PRO-8A - Loudspeakers | Eminence Speaker

 

[damkel]

If you have problem utilizing a horn midrange which is a natural bypass device and it can work with 1st order low pass filter a cone driver will be even more problematic to implement. 3 ways with a cone midrange are not easy to design even for experienced designers.

I am not sure I understand what you are trying to tell me...
As far as I know the problem I have is not integrating the midrange driver and get a nice spl response curve. Actually I find I have gotten more details in the midrange, but the sound is flat without any energy in voices.

 

[LewinskiH01]

How about 18Sound 10NDA610? 10", so depending on your xo point to the DE250 directivity could be an issue. But it's designed as midrange and 102 dB/W sensitivity. Not cheap.

Among 8": B&C 8PE21 @ 98 dB/W, PHL 2520 @ 100dB, P-Audio SN8-250N @ 98dB, Audax HM210Z10 @ 97dB

 

[Brett]

What are you using as a xover?

I used exactly the same LF and HF/WG with a JBL2123H and a modified DCX2496. Loverly.

 

[oon_the_kid]

How about this guy. Has a 99db/watt efficiency. Should blend right in.

FaitalPRO M5N8-80 5" Neodymium Professional Midrange 8 Ohm

Oon

 

[turboyam]

I would look at the Audax PR170MO. extremely good quality!.
Here are my JBL 4530 clones with JBL 2225 and my own design mid- high section. Tweeters are Beyma CP21-F slots.

 

[Pano]

I've heard the Beta-8A used in a 3 way system and it was very clean. easy to crossover, too. Choose a suitable high pass; then just a small inductor is needed to make the Beta-8a flat out to ~5K. Bring in a horn or ribbon tweeter there.

Have also heard the Beta-12LTA used as a midrange. Very surprisingly good. But the low pass filter was very complex. Woofers were twin 18"

 

[rahman688]

What horn are you using with the b&c and what’s your xo point/order?

 

[limono]

I was never a fan of Wayne Perlham's Pi speakers but many people like them . The components that you have would match Pi 4. Crossover diagram seems to be available online.

 

[FE3T]

In my opinion a JBL 2118H from 300hz - 1,6-2,0khz would be the Natural choice here.

 

[compaddict]

JBL 2012h?
Hens teeth but you asked!
Pair on eBay now!
Vince

 

[mayhem13]

Hands down B&C 8PE21......the smooth response of this driver can compete with any hifi midrange yet handles tons of power without power compression.

 

[wg_ski]

8PE21 *looks* like a PHL. Sounds as good as one too.

And if you compare them very carefully, the Beta 8 has exactly the same cone as the 8PE21. Different dust cap, and the B&C does have an advanced motor. The Beta 8 is just as free of nasty in-band energy storage issues as the B&C - just lower sensitivity and not as extended on the top end. The Eminence motor is “good enough” for most uses if you don’t need the extra 5dB/W and the higher mass roll-off point you get with the stronger motor. And if you do need 70 or 80 Hz low end extension, the Beta 8 has that covered.

 

[Zvu]

Are there any distortion measurements done for 8pe21 or Beta 8 ?

 

[pelanj]

I am searching for a driver into the RCF H6000 horn - the one dedicated to it is kind of expensive. Would the Beta 8 work, too? In the worst case, I will go for the RCF. It will be for home high efficiency horn system and later maybe for a compact PA box.

I just ordered two 8PE21 for midbass horns, but I will definitely try them also in the RCF horn, since the midbass horn is not built yet

 

[Pano]

The B&C 8" is interesting. At work we have a set of QSC line arrays that use the neo magnet 8" - the 8MDN51. Seems a decent driver. I have a couple of spares that might be fun to play with.