Hello everyone!
I recently grabbed a pair of FaitalPro 15FH520 15" woofers for very cheap, initially I wanted to sell those for a profit but since nobody in my area is interested I thought I may as well use them!
I may soon move to a new house which is gonna be bigger and will have room for a pair of beefier speakers, so I'm evaluating the idea of using those drivers to make a pair of towers (kinda like the Cerwin Vega SL-15) in conjuction with a midrange which I still have to choose, and possibly the Ciare PT383 tweeter which I already have. It's a 1,5" dome tweeter with a small waveguide on front.
I could use my 7 channel Harman Kardon AVR255 AV receiver to drive them fully active, or my other 5 channel Rotel RB985, the latter requiring some form of passive crossover.
My initial thought was to make a 110liter assisted bass reflex enclosure tuned somewhere around 35Hz, use the FaitalPro woofer up to about 5/600Hz and then cross it to either the FaitalPro m5n8, the Audax PR170M0 or the Ciare PNDI6.38MR. I don't know if I should get a compression driver instead of those.
I could get something else as well if there are any recommendations, as long as it's available in Italy and not too expensive!
I'm also aware that I could just make a 2-way and cross it with the Ciare PT383 tweeter directly, but I think there would be a tradeoff with power handling and midrange clarity.
I mainly listen to rock and metal, sometimes also folk and classical. I tend to listen quite loud on speakers and I prefer smoothness over detail.
I recently grabbed a pair of FaitalPro 15FH520 15" woofers for very cheap, initially I wanted to sell those for a profit but since nobody in my area is interested I thought I may as well use them!
I may soon move to a new house which is gonna be bigger and will have room for a pair of beefier speakers, so I'm evaluating the idea of using those drivers to make a pair of towers (kinda like the Cerwin Vega SL-15) in conjuction with a midrange which I still have to choose, and possibly the Ciare PT383 tweeter which I already have. It's a 1,5" dome tweeter with a small waveguide on front.
I could use my 7 channel Harman Kardon AVR255 AV receiver to drive them fully active, or my other 5 channel Rotel RB985, the latter requiring some form of passive crossover.
My initial thought was to make a 110liter assisted bass reflex enclosure tuned somewhere around 35Hz, use the FaitalPro woofer up to about 5/600Hz and then cross it to either the FaitalPro m5n8, the Audax PR170M0 or the Ciare PNDI6.38MR. I don't know if I should get a compression driver instead of those.
I could get something else as well if there are any recommendations, as long as it's available in Italy and not too expensive!
I'm also aware that I could just make a 2-way and cross it with the Ciare PT383 tweeter directly, but I think there would be a tradeoff with power handling and midrange clarity.
I mainly listen to rock and metal, sometimes also folk and classical. I tend to listen quite loud on speakers and I prefer smoothness over detail.
While I don't have specific comments for or against what you proprose (it mostly sounds reasonable), I can show you the measurement I just took for a Faital Pro 6FE100 I'm evaluating for midrange duty.
Measured on an 8" wide baffle, every 5deg from 0 to 90, mirrored:
I think it transitions smoothly from piston band to a steady 50deg of dispersion up to 10kHz. There are peaks to ideally deal with at ~4kHz and 8kHz, but the response from LF to 3kHz is quite smooth. Very easy to do if DSP, passively, the inductors are small so not that pricey.
The resonance peak might be at a lower frequency than the sealed back midrange you are considering, so easier to deal with if going passive. I get Fc~113Hz and Qtc~1.07 in 8.5 liters sealed & stuffed. You can play with the 5R6 BSC resistor to alter the kneepoint of the natural rolloff. You could likely do better with DSP response-wise too.
The 6FE100 does not have the efficiency of the M5N8, but it may be enough for what realistically looks like 96dB on your woofer, probably for 2PI radiation to boot, so take off a few dB's and the 6FE100's ~91dB starts to make sense. It's really hard to call an all direct-radiator system truly "high-efficiency". I have no illusions that my huge TD15M box is actually more like low-mid 90s in that regard.
I'm considering using this driver with a large dome and whatever woofer below, but it's an "on paper" thing for now and likely a good while.
Measured on an 8" wide baffle, every 5deg from 0 to 90, mirrored:
I think it transitions smoothly from piston band to a steady 50deg of dispersion up to 10kHz. There are peaks to ideally deal with at ~4kHz and 8kHz, but the response from LF to 3kHz is quite smooth. Very easy to do if DSP, passively, the inductors are small so not that pricey.
The resonance peak might be at a lower frequency than the sealed back midrange you are considering, so easier to deal with if going passive. I get Fc~113Hz and Qtc~1.07 in 8.5 liters sealed & stuffed. You can play with the 5R6 BSC resistor to alter the kneepoint of the natural rolloff. You could likely do better with DSP response-wise too.
The 6FE100 does not have the efficiency of the M5N8, but it may be enough for what realistically looks like 96dB on your woofer, probably for 2PI radiation to boot, so take off a few dB's and the 6FE100's ~91dB starts to make sense. It's really hard to call an all direct-radiator system truly "high-efficiency". I have no illusions that my huge TD15M box is actually more like low-mid 90s in that regard.
I'm considering using this driver with a large dome and whatever woofer below, but it's an "on paper" thing for now and likely a good while.
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Not sure how close that driver is to the other Faital 15, but have you looked at this:
https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_Calpamos.pdf
https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_Calpamos.pdf
Vic,
To play loud the PT383 would need to be crossed above 1500Hz, the 15" would beam (dispersion under 60 degrees) and gack out (AM/IM distortion) in the vocal range with heavy bass when played loud, while the tweeter would be running out of excursion keeping up.
With an Fb of 35 Hz, if you like loud, topping out at around 350Hz would clean up the midrange.
For the range you want to cover, a mid cone would be a better match to the 15" and PT383 than pretty much any compression driver/horn, even if you were willing to pay huge$$$.
Art
Thanks a lot.
I actually did consider the 6FE100 at first, being substantially cheaper and very linear compared to the other three I mentioned. I discarded that one after seeing some very ugly distortion and waterfall graphs at dibirama. The Audax and especially the Ciare looked much better from that regard. I couldn't find any independent measurements for the m5n8.
This looks very cool and I could do something similar with my 15", but the 3" compression driver plus the horn is out of budget!
Thanks. This were my worries and the reason why I steered away from a 2 way design. Also, wouldn't beaming actually be beneficial to the sound as long as I sit directly in axis with my speakers, aiding with room reflections? Do you have any suggestions on a high efficency, low distortion 5 or 6" midrange?
A controlled narrow beamwidth is beneficial in reducing room reflections, but transitioning from wide HF dispersion in the upper range to narrow in the midrange, then back to wide is not a good plan. Most 5 or 6" midrange should be around 90 degree (-6dB) dispersion in the 3kHz range, a good match for your tweeters.
I have personal experience with the Eminence Alpha 6A, it has similar midband sensitivity as your 15FH520 woofers and PT383 tweeters.
I've used them from around 2005-2016 for PA (mains, side fill, floor monitors) from 100Hz-3kHz, they sound good up to 115dB at 100 watts, and no complaints with 400+ peaks.
There may be better drivers available now, though most improvements would be in the power handling and excursion capability, not much of an issue for mid-band domestic use between a single 15" and dome tweeter.
Art
PS- I'd suggest putting the midrange and tweeter in separate enclosures from the woofers for more placement flexibility.
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AFAIK, the microphone I use (Dayton UMM-6 USB) is not ideal for distortion measurements. Still, I had not yet looked at the distortion plot from my measurements, but it seems it might be somewhat elevated compared to other speakers I measured in the same session, though I made no effort to calibrate them all to the same SPL. SPL discrepancies were not very large though. I should investigate this further.
The 6PEV13 has some annoying breakup modes around 2 to 3k that just are in that critical range. The Audax PR170MO sounds better to my ears with a more diffused breakup mode and responds very well to horn loading.
I'd recommend the 8PE21 if you can deal with an 8 inch driver and cross a little lower around 2.5k. Its such a smooth driver that really sounds open and clean when played loud.
Also, the Eminence Beta 6A is a nice driver although a little lower efficiency. It can really take alot of power and stay composed at higher output, but also sound delicate and defined at lower levels. The higher Qts makes it a great open baffle mid but it does well in a small sealed box when crossed 250 - 350 hz @ 12 dB.
I'd recommend the 8PE21 if you can deal with an 8 inch driver and cross a little lower around 2.5k. Its such a smooth driver that really sounds open and clean when played loud.
Also, the Eminence Beta 6A is a nice driver although a little lower efficiency. It can really take alot of power and stay composed at higher output, but also sound delicate and defined at lower levels. The higher Qts makes it a great open baffle mid but it does well in a small sealed box when crossed 250 - 350 hz @ 12 dB.
The 6PEV13 isn't really available here were I live. The 8PE21 is, and it seems a nice speaker, I could cross at 2k easily as I know for a fact that the PT383 tolerates very low crossover points without any trouble. But it is quite expensive (although still in budget) and kind of leaves me wondering if I really need an 8" if I'm crossing it at about 500Hz.
I could get the Eminence Alpha 6A which is readily available and it's also the cheapest of all. The Beta 6A isn't available at all.
The Ciare also looks pretty proming judging from the measurements here. I don't like the rising response it has but it looks like it could be EQ'd easily.
The Audax also looks very good when compared to other speakers but has a bit of a "tail" in the 1k range in the waterfall graph (AUDAX PR170M0). The FR graph looks better than the one of the Ciare.
But what about the M5N8? It is the most expensive of the bunch but it has a crazy high efficency and great TS parameters. The "official" response graph also almost looks too good to be true.
Also, would you recommend to place the midrange in a sealed enclosure or to place it in an open baffle setup?
Sealed seems the easiest route, and also the one that will probably work better in a normal sized room, but I've never heard how an open baffle speaker sounds!
I could get the Eminence Alpha 6A which is readily available and it's also the cheapest of all. The Beta 6A isn't available at all.
The Ciare also looks pretty proming judging from the measurements here. I don't like the rising response it has but it looks like it could be EQ'd easily.
The Audax also looks very good when compared to other speakers but has a bit of a "tail" in the 1k range in the waterfall graph (AUDAX PR170M0). The FR graph looks better than the one of the Ciare.
But what about the M5N8? It is the most expensive of the bunch but it has a crazy high efficency and great TS parameters. The "official" response graph also almost looks too good to be true.
Also, would you recommend to place the midrange in a sealed enclosure or to place it in an open baffle setup?
Sealed seems the easiest route, and also the one that will probably work better in a normal sized room, but I've never heard how an open baffle speaker sounds!
Wow yeah, almost too good
Efficiency is amazing.
Having gone into circles myself looking for midranges for a similar project.
It seemed at a quick glance of the usual 6" or 6.5" drivers
to stay away from upper response cone breakup.
I found numerous 5" drivers
with treated cones
But yeah, the efficiency is usually not there.
M5N8 seems like a really good find according to the data sheet.
I suppose the " magic" is low inductance
and a smaller / treated cone.
treated cones drop efficiency. but the motor is neo.
and seems pretty hefty for a neo magnet.
in theory can be crossed over pretty high.
would guarantee a cleaner tweeter
My only other thoughts was wishing for more 32 ohm 5" drivers
and do a array of 4 drivers.
Of course, opens a can of worms why or why not that is a good idea.
The efficiency of the M5N8 seems to solve those problems.
Single driver solution
It seems like it is the best solution, at least on paper! But the lack of independent measurements makes me a bit worried.
Maybe I'll be the first one to test it if I can convince myself to get it!