This is simply not true. Thousands of hours have been spent scanning manuals and cleaning up scans in Photoshop that others have donated, bundling them into PDFs and providing them free of charge.
You don't know the work that's gone into the site, because despite your claims, you've contributed nothing.
Be careful here.
There are some legal issues here. Anyone who has done work on such documents, who has CREATED such documents sees the problem.
- If a document was available freely with no NDAs then no one but the creator owns it.
- If there's an NDA, then the creator owns it and controls it.
Hifiengine is not a creator, only an aggregator. It can not exert any legal power over the documents that it holds.
Thus, none of those documents are the property of hifiengine. None of them are "HIS"....
If hifiengine attempts to assert ownership of the data once it has left its direct controls (ie: servers) then it becomes Intellectual Property theft.
Hifiengine can only charge for the service of the download. If it chooses to provide the service for free, then that's their prerogative. But they NEVER own any of those documents.
Now, I'm no lawyer myself, but I've been in this business of electronics and software and Hitech and dealt with IP and lawyers since 1980.
In my experience, Hifiengine better consult with an IP attorney.
The solution is for Hifiengine to either charge for the service of downloading or to shut up and lose money. Asserting ownership of the products opens them to IP theft: making money off other people's products.
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Hi canbol,
I recognize the huge amount of work that went into HiFiEngine. I've always thought that. Your donated files are noted as such, the others I assumed were scanned.
So, what do you want? If you wish people to contribute, just ask. Had I had anything to upload you didn't have, I would. Not unless I signed an agreement not to release information.
I don't know canbol. Not once have most people attempted to abuse your work. I certainly haven't since I can only speak for myself with absolute certainty. I'll try to help with reasonable requests, and I have always been truthful with what I can and cannot do. There are folks here that would work with you, not against you.
You have a problem. Can people work together to solve it? That's up to you.
I recognize the huge amount of work that went into HiFiEngine. I've always thought that. Your donated files are noted as such, the others I assumed were scanned.
So, what do you want? If you wish people to contribute, just ask. Had I had anything to upload you didn't have, I would. Not unless I signed an agreement not to release information.
I don't know canbol. Not once have most people attempted to abuse your work. I certainly haven't since I can only speak for myself with absolute certainty. I'll try to help with reasonable requests, and I have always been truthful with what I can and cannot do. There are folks here that would work with you, not against you.
You have a problem. Can people work together to solve it? That's up to you.
Irrelevant. See my other post about Intellenctual Property.
Your expenses are for providing the service... thus you are an AGGREGATOR not a CREATOR.
No one denies your right to get paid for the service.
It is YOU who doesn't want to charge for the service.
...
BTW: BS: ******** man, Do Not **** Me Off. I contributed eons ago under my own name the pictures of those components. I'd ask you to stop the personal attacks or I will ask the moderators to put a stop to it. And, no, I am NOT gonna give you my own name.
DO NOT MAKE THIS PERSONAL.... which is what I felt you were doing at the very beginning. Keep away from logical fallacies because they weaken your argument.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/ad-hominem
....
What amazes me is that WE ALL keep telling you to start charging and that will solve everybody's problems.... Yet, you don't want to charge. Instead you turned the site into a ZOMBIE site and act pained about it...
We actually want hifiengine back working.... yet you get defensive, belligerant and insulting.
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Sorry, but due to rising costs and ongoing abuse, the download server is temporarily closed while I look for a way to dramatically reduce both.
I guess am not good enough! Be careful though... your user name might be banned too if you get associated with this site.
I mean, I can still log in (as of yesterday) but I can not download anything.
Can you get this one?
https://www.hifiengine.com/hfe_downloads/download.php?first_watt/first_watt_f1_en.pdf
I guess am not good enough! Be careful though... your user name might be banned too if you get associated with this site.
I mean, I can still log in (as of yesterday) but I can not download anything.
Can you get this one?
https://www.hifiengine.com/hfe_downloads/download.php?first_watt/first_watt_f1_en.pdf
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Oh, I have the doc, straight from Nelson's sites.
thanks
I just wanted to know if you can download it from the hifiengine site. Notice the error I'm getting.
thanks
I just wanted to know if you can download it from the hifiengine site. Notice the error I'm getting.
OK, sorry, I thought you were claiming to have contributed scans to the library, when you actually contributed a couple of pics to the gallery a decade ago.
I'm afraid contributor status only goes to those contributing to the library.
I got some truly astounding documents but if I uploaded them, the Police would crack down on all of us.
Worse yet, if I scanned the user manual for an ARC or CJ amp. The DOD IP Audio Directorate would put us all in Sing Sing.
How about if we upload the DIY build guides? I got a few around. You think Jim will get really upset?
I guess the Gallery is not good enough even though the pictures is all we're allowed to see...
Sorry, but this is ridiculous and we ain't getting anywhere. Wait! We did get @canbol to show up...
Worse yet, if I scanned the user manual for an ARC or CJ amp. The DOD IP Audio Directorate would put us all in Sing Sing.
How about if we upload the DIY build guides? I got a few around. You think Jim will get really upset?
I guess the Gallery is not good enough even though the pictures is all we're allowed to see...
Sorry, but this is ridiculous and we ain't getting anywhere. Wait! We did get @canbol to show up...
Exactly how is one supposed to upload files that you don't already have to get access, when you have such a huge number already?
With that restriction, fewer and fewer people will be able to contribute anything and have access.
And if you have EVERYTHING, then no one could have access. This makes NO sense. Talk about being user hostile.
I acknowledge that this is probably a minority opinion, but I think this thread has long since run its course. No amount of ranting and raving here is going change anything, and if the owner of HiFi Engine has read any of the posts here it's hard for me to imagine that he would be motivated to do anything by some of the more vicious ones.
I know that I can just un-watch this thread (and already have) but isn't it time to just shut it down? Everything that can be said (constructive or otherwise) has already been said multiple times.
I know that I can just un-watch this thread (and already have) but isn't it time to just shut it down? Everything that can be said (constructive or otherwise) has already been said multiple times.
I agree Ray. I've had a conversation with him via email that covered points made. I did learn something though.
Animosity isn't going to solve anything, or help. Co-operation would.
Animosity isn't going to solve anything, or help. Co-operation would.
I think the animosity here is coming from the owner of hifiengine, but I sense a change in his tone.
Most of us here, all of us? actually want hifiengine to succeed. If we didn't care about hifiengine we'd be doing exactly what Ray is doing and ignore it.
IMHO, there has been some progress here. We finally had someone directly affiliated with hifiengine to post in the DIYaudio forum. It has come out into the open. let's not push it back into the background.
Let's see of we can get him to work on updating the terms and conditions.
See.. I (we?) really want hifiengine to succeed, so let's keep the thread running. People can always unwatch the thread.
Most of us here, all of us? actually want hifiengine to succeed. If we didn't care about hifiengine we'd be doing exactly what Ray is doing and ignore it.
IMHO, there has been some progress here. We finally had someone directly affiliated with hifiengine to post in the DIYaudio forum. It has come out into the open. let's not push it back into the background.
Let's see of we can get him to work on updating the terms and conditions.
See.. I (we?) really want hifiengine to succeed, so let's keep the thread running. People can always unwatch the thread.
No, contribution to the library isn't a requirement to use the site.
I was just clearing up that contributors is a member group on hifiengine, and it only applies to the small minority of people who've contributed scans or pdfs to the library.
tonyEE says he's contributed to the site because he uploaded a couple of pics to the gallery, but that doesn't make him a contributor in the way the term is used on hifiengine.
The immediate problem has been solved by temporarily closing downloads, but suggest away.
Charging for every download is off the table, so really it's about either carefully driving down costs and abuse or swamping the site with ads like the scraper sites do.
Reopening registrations is a bigger problem, as there isn't a free way to properly verify visitors (names and zip codes) to combat determined scrapers. Charging a registration fee or subscription would be an easy fix, but it would turn guests into customers, and nobody wants that.
"Customers".... no, nyet... how about supporting partners instead? We really want you to succeed! don't think of us as customers, think of us as partners who really want you around.
Actually, instead of charging per download... how about?
(1) Limit the number of downloads per day, per week, per user. I think that was already being done.
(2) Create a donation/subscription. Example, note how here in DIYAudio many of us have a "shield" by our names.
(3) Perhaps, limit the number of downloads per donation level. Non donating users get one download per week, donating Gold partners get three a day. Platinum partners get five a day... Partners named Tony get 10 on odd days and none on even days...
At the very least, put some "donation" mechanism so people can help you out.
Dang it, I'd gladly donate 50 bucks a year to your site. I think, you might find out that even a small required donation would stop "determined scrapers". I dare say I'm not the only one who would be willing to support your site.
Seriously. If you're finding out that running the show and paying for out of control downloads is untenable, then make it so that users can help you out and make it expensive to scrape the site of data.
Actually, instead of charging per download... how about?
(1) Limit the number of downloads per day, per week, per user. I think that was already being done.
(2) Create a donation/subscription. Example, note how here in DIYAudio many of us have a "shield" by our names.
(3) Perhaps, limit the number of downloads per donation level. Non donating users get one download per week, donating Gold partners get three a day. Platinum partners get five a day... Partners named Tony get 10 on odd days and none on even days...
At the very least, put some "donation" mechanism so people can help you out.
Dang it, I'd gladly donate 50 bucks a year to your site. I think, you might find out that even a small required donation would stop "determined scrapers". I dare say I'm not the only one who would be willing to support your site.
Seriously. If you're finding out that running the show and paying for out of control downloads is untenable, then make it so that users can help you out and make it expensive to scrape the site of data.
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I'm all for @toneyEE suggestions. I would gladly pay a nominal annual fee for downloads and access.
At the other extreme, have you thought about selling the site and content if you don't want to administer it? Or hiring someone who would deal with the issues issues, there must be people starting their career who would be interested.
At the other extreme, have you thought about selling the site and content if you don't want to administer it? Or hiring someone who would deal with the issues issues, there must be people starting their career who would be interested.
That is obviously unacceptable (trying to scrape everything) and those trying to do that should of course be banned by whatever means.
The owner of the site needs to ask himself what he wants the library to be used for looking to the future. I would have thought it was to be able to keep mostly vintage gear running and service manuals don't really serve any other purpose. If it serves no purpose then all the work put into creating it goes to waste.
As to 'donation of files' seeming to be a factor in all this and whether the owner only sees someone who uploads files as being a 'worthwhile member', well my line of work was in TV and Video service rather than audio.
So I am a 'user' of the files and not a contributor, but I would like to think that using the library information to help others repair equipment was one of the aims of the site.
Only the owner of the site knows what he wants but he should remember that not everyone is out to abuse HiFiEngine.