The plans i have is for the #1 Onken enclosures, there is two plans made, for the Celestion driver:
Link: Hi-End and Hi-Eff loudspeakers system
And one other for the beyma driver:
Link: Hi-End and Hi-Eff loudspeakers system 2
So i am pretty sure the first link is for the Celestion driver, the parameters and the Onken Calc. match my Celestion driver
Thank you for the response
Best regards
Svein
Ok than I made the wrong conclusion success with the project.
FYI, the cab's design [alignment] is only valid for a very low total series resistance [RG = 0.1 ohms], so if using relatively high Dcr XO components and/or driving it with a high output impedance [tube] amp, the cab will be too small and tuned too high, potentially causing an unacceptable amount of the previously mentioned 'bloated' bass.
GM
GM
I will be using an Marchand active crossover and a Muse model 160 power amp (transistor) crossing at ca. 800 Hz. to drive the Celestion driver in the Onken enclosure, i must admit that this is one part of the "enclosure" build i dont understand but is crossing my fingers that it will work out somehow.
I mean to have read/someone told me that my muse power amp would do fine with driving the Onken.
I am new to this part of the hobby, so it is kind a bit like my first real try at making my own speakers...
I earlier had a pair of Klipsch Forte, but a second child and a smaller listening room made me sell them and buy a pair of Epos m5i speakers, great small speakers but...small if you know. So i made my wife and myself a new bedroom and got a bigger listening room again and here i am, wanting a set of new self built speakers.
The horn top will be a woodhorn, planning to build it myself with Fostex 1405d driver driven by an homebuilt set el34 power amp. Maybe i need to change the xover frequency a bit, to maybe 900 Hz or 1000 Hz, but Marchand supply these for little money... If necessary i might add a supertweeter later crossing passive at 8000-10000 Hz. but that is far a head right now.
First i want to get the Onken enclosure up and running, but if it is a big mistake i might just have to use the Celestion driver in a standard bass bin instead. The cost is mostly the plywood so i guess the loss will not be to bad anyway...
But i really like the Onken enclosure, its a mans speaker and hints of the old days of vintage speakers, when speakers were speakers and wasnt made to disappear in the room
Thank you for the response, its a learning thing, there will always be things one hasnt thought of when being new to this part of the game...
Also i am not the best woodsman out here so that is why i really liked this plans
If someone could educate me a bit on some of this line, i would appreciate it:
"very low total series resistance [RG = 0.1 ohms], so if using relatively high Dcr XO components and/or driving it with a high output impedance [tube] amp, the cab will be too small and tuned too high"
I really hadnt given this much consideration...
Again, thank you for the time answering my questions
Best regards
Svein
I mean to have read/someone told me that my muse power amp would do fine with driving the Onken.
I am new to this part of the hobby, so it is kind a bit like my first real try at making my own speakers...
I earlier had a pair of Klipsch Forte, but a second child and a smaller listening room made me sell them and buy a pair of Epos m5i speakers, great small speakers but...small if you know. So i made my wife and myself a new bedroom and got a bigger listening room again and here i am, wanting a set of new self built speakers.
The horn top will be a woodhorn, planning to build it myself with Fostex 1405d driver driven by an homebuilt set el34 power amp. Maybe i need to change the xover frequency a bit, to maybe 900 Hz or 1000 Hz, but Marchand supply these for little money... If necessary i might add a supertweeter later crossing passive at 8000-10000 Hz. but that is far a head right now.
First i want to get the Onken enclosure up and running, but if it is a big mistake i might just have to use the Celestion driver in a standard bass bin instead. The cost is mostly the plywood so i guess the loss will not be to bad anyway...
But i really like the Onken enclosure, its a mans speaker and hints of the old days of vintage speakers, when speakers were speakers and wasnt made to disappear in the room
Thank you for the response, its a learning thing, there will always be things one hasnt thought of when being new to this part of the game...
Also i am not the best woodsman out here so that is why i really liked this plans
If someone could educate me a bit on some of this line, i would appreciate it:
"very low total series resistance [RG = 0.1 ohms], so if using relatively high Dcr XO components and/or driving it with a high output impedance [tube] amp, the cab will be too small and tuned too high"
I really hadnt given this much consideration...
Again, thank you for the time answering my questions
Best regards
Svein
Very interesting thread on this type of speaker build and reference to measurement techniques, something I am trying to learn.
FWIW, I have recently completed a pair of DIY MLTL enclosures using the Altec 416b. The top end is currently handled by Altec 802g CD (1000hz-7.5 khz) and a Heil AMT above 7.5 khz.. Speakers are driven by a mish-mash of sand amps, at present, the Pass F5 pushing the midrange with another Pass F5 class A amp in the wings for the low end. Crossover is handled by Behringer CX3400.
I want to measure these to see what I have and am looking for measuring gear that will get me started. Any suggestions for a fairly inexpensive solution to a newbie for measurement?
FWIW, I have recently completed a pair of DIY MLTL enclosures using the Altec 416b. The top end is currently handled by Altec 802g CD (1000hz-7.5 khz) and a Heil AMT above 7.5 khz.. Speakers are driven by a mish-mash of sand amps, at present, the Pass F5 pushing the midrange with another Pass F5 class A amp in the wings for the low end. Crossover is handled by Behringer CX3400.
I want to measure these to see what I have and am looking for measuring gear that will get me started. Any suggestions for a fairly inexpensive solution to a newbie for measurement?
Use HolmImpulse, its free and there are posts here somewhere that explain how to use it.
I'd try REW. It's free, has a manual, and there a forum to answer questions about how to use it. REW - Room EQ Wizard Home Page
It's powerful stuff, so drink slowly.
This will help as well: http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/2010/09/gating-loudspeaker-measurements.html
any cheap audio I/O device and a cheap but calibrated measuring mic. You can get those for under $250 USD total.
Dan
It's powerful stuff, so drink slowly.
This will help as well: http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/2010/09/gating-loudspeaker-measurements.html
any cheap audio I/O device and a cheap but calibrated measuring mic. You can get those for under $250 USD total.
Dan
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Revisited
Hey Westend, We have discussed this before on the Altec board.I think you were looking for a soundcard at the time.As I was new to this too last summer-fall.Pano got me started and I agree with Gedlee that HolmImpulse is far easier to learn for newbies as I was and still am.REW is more advanced and more difficult to master so I would get good with HolmImpulse and then move on to REW,ARTA,etc...That's what worked for me but your path maybe different of course. Get a good Mic calibrated ECM 8000 works well.And I bought a M-Audio full duplex "Fast Track Pro" and a 25 ft XLR Mic cable.The soundcard has to have phantom power of 48v. And you should be good to go and after a short time you will get the hang of what works and what doesn't to get good accurate measurements. Best of Luck with it. Regards ~ AB
Addendum: Try this thread L
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soft...surements-practice.html?highlight=Holmimpulse
Hey Westend, We have discussed this before on the Altec board.I think you were looking for a soundcard at the time.As I was new to this too last summer-fall.Pano got me started and I agree with Gedlee that HolmImpulse is far easier to learn for newbies as I was and still am.REW is more advanced and more difficult to master so I would get good with HolmImpulse and then move on to REW,ARTA,etc...That's what worked for me but your path maybe different of course. Get a good Mic calibrated ECM 8000 works well.And I bought a M-Audio full duplex "Fast Track Pro" and a 25 ft XLR Mic cable.The soundcard has to have phantom power of 48v. And you should be good to go and after a short time you will get the hang of what works and what doesn't to get good accurate measurements.
Best of Luck with it. Regards ~ ABAddendum: Try this thread L
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soft...surements-practice.html?highlight=Holmimpulse
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For driver measurements I find HOLM to be far more advanced then REW. From the ease of gating to setting impulse offsets, dB offsets, response summation, etc.
There just isn't anything REW does well compared to HOLM in this situation. Even ARTA isn't really user friendly. I only use ARTA for CSD, group delay, min phase stuff. Nothing is really easier then HOLM too bad free development stopped on the product.
THe latest REW versions are far better then the previous ones and its getting closer to a good speaker design measurement tool but I still classify the REW as a room measurement tool that is maximized for bass response measurement and bass EQing.
There just isn't anything REW does well compared to HOLM in this situation. Even ARTA isn't really user friendly. I only use ARTA for CSD, group delay, min phase stuff. Nothing is really easier then HOLM too bad free development stopped on the product.
THe latest REW versions are far better then the previous ones and its getting closer to a good speaker design measurement tool but I still classify the REW as a room measurement tool that is maximized for bass response measurement and bass EQing.
You're welcome!
Every electrical device in a signal chain has some insertion loss [series resistance] that add up and if you work through the driver T/S specs math you will find that this added resistance effectively weakens its motor [VC/magnet assembly, i.e. Qes, Qts rises], so to maintain a similar response curve it must have a 'weaker' air mass spring to counterbalance it, i.e. larger net cab volume [Vb] and the lower cab tuning [Fb] it dictates.
A Rg = 0.1 ohm usually only accounts for some speaker wiring and/or a high damping factor [DF] SS amp. Adding a passive XO and/or using a too small a current carrying capacity speaker wire can add enough to audibly alter its response.
Popular tube amps can have enough resistance to double Qes, Qts and why low to very low Qts drivers are required to get the most performance out of them. Since the typically higher Qts drivers of today are designed for a very low output impedance, the speaker cab needs to be designed to compensate, hence the need for a larger than typical cab with a lower than typical tuning than when using just the driver's T/S specs.
GM
Looking good, but thought you were going to make the horn baffles full cab width to maximize the blending of the XO's BW..........
GM
No, havent built the Onken yet, but have gotten the right measurement for 22mm plywood Onken enclosure...
Have the Celestion 15" drivers and i am waiting for the plywood to arrive...
Will be using a Fostex 1405d as top, in an ordinary plastic horn flare to start while i save money for a Fostex woodhorn which i really like the look of
Have the Celestion 15" drivers and i am waiting for the plywood to arrive...
Will be using a Fostex 1405d as top, in an ordinary plastic horn flare to start while i save money for a Fostex woodhorn which i really like the look of
Hallo again, i have now built the Onken and they are great. Really love them.
I have not applied any finish on them yet, it is winter here and sanding and so will be done in the summer.
I run my Onken active with a Mercand x over at 800 hz, the Onken is driven by a Muse model one sixty and the horn is driven by a diy el34se amp.
The horn driver is Fostex d1405 in a cheap horn for now, i plan for the fostex woodhorn eventually, but must save some money for it first...
All in all im exstremely pleased with the results, i think they sound amazing and i will propably build an all out version at a later stage in my life.
The fit and finish are not excellent but im battling leukemia and get fatigued, so i just did my best with the tools i had
I have not applied any finish on them yet, it is winter here and sanding and so will be done in the summer.
I run my Onken active with a Mercand x over at 800 hz, the Onken is driven by a Muse model one sixty and the horn is driven by a diy el34se amp.
The horn driver is Fostex d1405 in a cheap horn for now, i plan for the fostex woodhorn eventually, but must save some money for it first...
All in all im exstremely pleased with the results, i think they sound amazing and i will propably build an all out version at a later stage in my life.
The fit and finish are not excellent but im battling leukemia and get fatigued, so i just did my best with the tools i had
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Hallo again, i have now built the Onken and they are great. Really love them.
I have not applied any finish on them yet, it is winter here and sanding and so will be done in the summer.
I run my Onken active with a Mercand x over at 800 hz, the Onken is driven by a Muse model one sixty and the horn is driven by a diy el34se amp.
The horn driver is Fostex d1405 in a cheap horn for now, i plan for the fostex woodhorn eventually, but must save some money for it first...
All in all im exstremely pleased with the results, i think they sound amazing and i will propably build an all out version at a later stage in my life.
The fit and finish are not excellent but im battling leukemia and get fatigued, so i just did my best with the tools i had
Nice work! It's important that they sound good and that you were able to finish. Good luck with the future modifications and, more importantly, your health!
Greets!
Understood! They look nice in the photos, but as long as they don't leak, the rest is strictly cosmetic. Some battle! Hope you're able to win it and the 'war'!
GM
Thank you for the response. They are air tight, i made sure of that. Will finalise the finish in the spring/summer when i know what horn i finally choose.
Nice coincident but other then the Fostex woodhorn i am actually considering the autotech horns
Anyone have a sugestion of what i should choose?
I am actually winning the war, it just takes a long time, been at it 2,5 years and almost a year still to go with chemotherapy...
Nice coincident but other then the Fostex woodhorn i am actually considering the autotech horns
Anyone have a sugestion of what i should choose?
I am actually winning the war, it just takes a long time, been at it 2,5 years and almost a year still to go with chemotherapy...
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