I guess I have a simple question here. Has anyone built loudspeakers featuring the Hertz Mille drivers for home usage ?
I've only used the older Herz ML1600 (probably called MK2) in my Car. The model with inverted surrounds.
That specific model was tested on a klippel at the diymobileaudio site. After seeing that test I was confident enough to get me a set for use in my car.
Prior to 2010 the Mille set was top of line product for Hertz. That status went to the Thesis line from Audison, at least it looked that way.
Later models seemed to follow quite a different strategy in it's design. I dare say: probably cheaper to build for Hertz. Sadly, I haven't seen much info on them to be able to compare.
I only used the woofers, bought separately, for an active setup in my car. The tweeters I used with them were from Hertz too, but from another model line (with switchable back chamber). I ended up replacing those with Vifa XT25 SC90 in a 'self designed' and 3D printed tweeter pod:
This setup is still in my car and is a joy to listen to. It was the reason for me to start building new Home audio speakers. It was that good!
I did like them (the older ML1600) enough to consider using them for home use, though ended up going in an entirely different direction.
I do remember there has been a time where some "fake ML1600's" showed up on ebay. Just a warning/heads up... The build quality of the originals was superb. The knock off's weren't. I remember seeing pictures.
What models were you looking at? No idea if this is of any help to you, I hope so. Here's my Car setup thread, I started my mission with Pioneer speakers. Once I moved to Hertz woofers with the Vifa tweeters I never felt the need to upgrade again. EQ-ed and active setup (2 way plus sub) with a Pioneer P88 RS II head unit.
Quite a long story to say: No I haven't 😀 Sorry for that. It means I really liked those ML 1600 Mk2 woofers!
That specific model was tested on a klippel at the diymobileaudio site. After seeing that test I was confident enough to get me a set for use in my car.
Prior to 2010 the Mille set was top of line product for Hertz. That status went to the Thesis line from Audison, at least it looked that way.
Later models seemed to follow quite a different strategy in it's design. I dare say: probably cheaper to build for Hertz. Sadly, I haven't seen much info on them to be able to compare.
I only used the woofers, bought separately, for an active setup in my car. The tweeters I used with them were from Hertz too, but from another model line (with switchable back chamber). I ended up replacing those with Vifa XT25 SC90 in a 'self designed' and 3D printed tweeter pod:
This setup is still in my car and is a joy to listen to. It was the reason for me to start building new Home audio speakers. It was that good!
I did like them (the older ML1600) enough to consider using them for home use, though ended up going in an entirely different direction.
I do remember there has been a time where some "fake ML1600's" showed up on ebay. Just a warning/heads up... The build quality of the originals was superb. The knock off's weren't. I remember seeing pictures.
What models were you looking at? No idea if this is of any help to you, I hope so. Here's my Car setup thread, I started my mission with Pioneer speakers. Once I moved to Hertz woofers with the Vifa tweeters I never felt the need to upgrade again. EQ-ed and active setup (2 way plus sub) with a Pioneer P88 RS II head unit.
Quite a long story to say: No I haven't 😀 Sorry for that. It means I really liked those ML 1600 Mk2 woofers!
Thanks for the reply.
ML1650.3 (6.5"), ML1800.3 (7"), ML2000.3 (8") and ML2500.2 (10"). I talked to Hertz about making 8 ohm versions but they had no interest in that. I know 8 ohms are safer and better than 4 ohm's.
ML1650.3 (6.5"), ML1800.3 (7"), ML2000.3 (8") and ML2500.2 (10"). I talked to Hertz about making 8 ohm versions but they had no interest in that. I know 8 ohms are safer and better than 4 ohm's.
No, but the ML1650.3 (6.5") has fairly low qts (0.35) for a car hifi midwoofer.
Should work quite well ported.
Also it has low vas (12.4 ltr), so the enclosure will be quite compact.
Should work quite well ported.
Also it has low vas (12.4 ltr), so the enclosure will be quite compact.
If you come across a loudspeaker designed with car units, it would usually be leftovers from unrealised projects. I am glad to see Eletromedia have started to develop their speaker units more seriously and the measurements provided are coming to shape.
This particular woofer has high MMS for its size (its said to be a 6.5" one but in reallity is a 5.25"), parameters better suited for a sealed configuration (they`re intended for the typical car door) and actual sensitivity of around 90db/2.83V which is not much different of many other home woofers. Its linear xmax is 4.5mm, not a lot. I don`t see any benefit of using it in a home loudspeaker, there are cheaper better engineered drivers out there for dedicated home use (Seas reed cones, SB Acoustics line and so on).
Have a look at the link below. It is the ARC Audio Black series component system. It won several awards even with its poor implemented crossover. Recognized the midwoofer (yes, its the poly version)?
Arc Audio Black Series 6.2 2-way 6.5" SQ Audiophile Components - Sounds Good Stereo | Fort Lauderdale, FL
This particular woofer has high MMS for its size (its said to be a 6.5" one but in reallity is a 5.25"), parameters better suited for a sealed configuration (they`re intended for the typical car door) and actual sensitivity of around 90db/2.83V which is not much different of many other home woofers. Its linear xmax is 4.5mm, not a lot. I don`t see any benefit of using it in a home loudspeaker, there are cheaper better engineered drivers out there for dedicated home use (Seas reed cones, SB Acoustics line and so on).
Have a look at the link below. It is the ARC Audio Black series component system. It won several awards even with its poor implemented crossover. Recognized the midwoofer (yes, its the poly version)?
Arc Audio Black Series 6.2 2-way 6.5" SQ Audiophile Components - Sounds Good Stereo | Fort Lauderdale, FL
That is the SB MFC Poly cone (SB17MFC35). But I wonder if the NAC series is better.
SB Acoustics :: 6" SB17NBAC35-8<br><font color="#C70039">SHIPPING</font>
Looking at Qms for NRX, MFC and NAC:
SB17NRXC35-8: Qms 5.0 - Papyrus cone
SB17MFC35-8: Qms 4.9 - Poly cone
SB17NBAC35-8: Qms 4.1 - Alu cone
NRX
MFC
NAC
If it's a 5.25" ?? why is it`s diameter and cone area that of a 6.5"?
Also Mms is not really high for this size of a hifi woofer.
This one will run better ported because of tsp (EBP ~153).
For a 6.5" hifi sq design it has reasonable xmax.
Oneminde, the NAC is not very sensitive and would require a more sophisticated crossover to address the cone resonance. They have a ceramic version now, if you want a hard cone, have a look at it too.
Have a look at http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/wp-c...HERTZ_Mille-Legend_ML1650_Tech_Sheet_16_A.pdf
B=132mm. Usually in Sd calculations, only half of the surround is included. Thus, it is smaller than 132mm. With the full surround Sd is 136.78. A typical 6.5" would have its B around 145mm.
With a Qts of 0.47 it is not very suitable for a ported box, yet tis lower xmax is a limiting factor if the only cone control would come from an acoustic suspension loading so a single one may not work as well as a pair (which, due to 4 ohm nominal impedance, has to be wired in series).
Have a look at http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/wp-c...HERTZ_Mille-Legend_ML1650_Tech_Sheet_16_A.pdf
B=132mm. Usually in Sd calculations, only half of the surround is included. Thus, it is smaller than 132mm. With the full surround Sd is 136.78. A typical 6.5" would have its B around 145mm.
With a Qts of 0.47 it is not very suitable for a ported box, yet tis lower xmax is a limiting factor if the only cone control would come from an acoustic suspension loading so a single one may not work as well as a pair (which, due to 4 ohm nominal impedance, has to be wired in series).
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I fail to see any difference SB17NAC35-8 vs SB17CAC35-8 and what would the ceramic coating should do in there:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I guess that coating is so thin that it does absolutely nothing for the sound in terms of stiffening the cone even more and moving the breakup higher in frequency.
Yes.
Cone area is not that much for a 6,5" albeit there are quite a few around 137 mm.
You can`t rely on Hertz`s tsp. (I suspect they make them up)
It got measured in Germany (scroll down):
hifitest.de - Testberichte der Unterhaltungselektronik. Aktuelle Gerate im Test, Top-Kategorien, Topthema.
Test Car-HiFi-Lautsprecher 16cm - Hertz MLK 1650.3 - sehr gut - Seite 3
Qts is 0.35.
So the motor is much stronger and very suitable for ported designs.
So it the old story, they did post very questionable data on their products...
Zvu, correct, it about the same, but if he likes hard cones and low sensitivity 😀 - may have a look at the ceramics too. Considering the performance, I also doubt the thickness of the AlO2 (or whatever ceramics it is) layer.
Zvu, correct, it about the same, but if he likes hard cones and low sensitivity 😀 - may have a look at the ceramics too. Considering the performance, I also doubt the thickness of the AlO2 (or whatever ceramics it is) layer.
😛
High sensitivity is for the ones with pussy amplifiers 😱 What's a 250W of ice-power among friends.
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